Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Tuesday, February 6, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[09:50:07] <uio> Hi I havd my pem files generated for certificate. How do I feed them to ejabberd?
[09:50:23] <uio> Running latest HEAD
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[09:58:11] <ejabberd upstream> uio: put them some place accessible by ejabberd, declare them in ejabberd.yml and reload ejabberd. If you replace the already configured certfiles ejabberd should notice and reload them automatically
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[10:01:57] ejabberd upstream is now known as debalance
[10:02:40] <debalance> .oO( gajim's german translations can be misleading...)
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[10:11:23] <SaltyBones> debalance, I updated them once about a year ago or so. It's pretty easy but I just gave up on it because I don't know anybody who actually uses it in german. :)
[10:14:54] SaltyBones leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[10:17:50] <uio> ejabberd upstream:
Am I doing this right?
cat /etc/letsencrypt/live/server.com/privkey.pem /etc/letsencrypt/live/server.com/fullchain.pem >> /path/to/ejabberd/pem/ejabberd.pem
##
certfiles:
  - "/path/to/ejabberd/pem/ejabberd.pem"
##   - "/etc/letsencrypt/live/example.com/*.pem"
With this my certificate is not being picked up
[10:17:54] <debalance> SaltyBones: it's not really the translations that are bad, but in combination with the UI it can be confusing. I intended to change my local nickname for the MUC, instead I changed my JID's nickname inside the MUC xD
[10:18:50] <debalance> uio: looks good to me, that's how I do it, too
[10:19:27] <Student> uio: also make chown -R ejabberd:ejabberd for your pem files
[10:19:34] <Student> don't forget about this
[10:19:34] mrDoctorWho leaves the room
[10:20:35] <debalance> you could do "su - ejabberd" and try to read them with cat/less/... to make sure permissions are okay
[10:22:01] <zinid> uio: no need to concatenate, just point to /path/to/certs/*.pem
[10:22:38] <zinid> And that's it, nothing more should be configured
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[11:04:20] <Man_Life> P
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[15:07:39] uplink leaves the room: offline
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[15:09:27] <Student> can I block all spamm servers via iptables?
[15:13:00] <Student> today I get some problems:
2018-02-06 14:42:29.380 [info] <0.3136.0>@ejabberd_c2s:process_terminated:271 (tls|<0.3136.0>) Closing c2s session for user@domain/Psi+: Stream closed by us: User removed (conflict)
few times was deleted from my base few users, but they do not do that, can this be as a result as my server is flooded?
[15:15:10] <zinid> Student, no, this is a result of stupid Psi+ bug
[15:15:24] <Student> really?
[15:15:31] <zinid> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/1454
[15:15:35] <SaltyBones> There is a Psi+ bug that deletes your account? :D
[15:16:00] <Student> all users was Psi+ users
[15:16:39] <zinid> https://github.com/psi-plus/main/issues/671
[15:17:20] <Student> my server is 18.01
[15:17:36] <Student> also?
[15:17:50] <zinid> here is a workaround: https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/1599
[15:17:53] <zinid> also what?
[15:18:14] <zinid> this bug will be reproduced on all ejabberd >= 16.12
[15:19:02] <Student> what xmpp client are recomended?
[15:19:11] <Student> winndows and mac os
[15:19:22] <zinid> no idea 😉
[15:19:26] <zinid> I think there are none
[15:20:01] <Student> mod_register:
  access_remove: deny
[15:20:01] <SaltyBones> Student, I use Gajim.
[15:20:08] <Student> on mac os?
[15:20:16] <SaltyBones> No, but it should be possible.
[15:20:29] <SaltyBones> It's python and gtk...
[15:20:48] <zinid> I'm told gajim looks terrible on windows and mac
[15:21:08] <Student> zinid:   mod_register:
    access_remove: deny
does this will solve my problem?
[15:21:13] <zinid> Student, yes
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[15:25:46] <Student> zinid: thanks, I also try to find description for mod_push_keepalive and mod_push in official docs
[15:26:10] <zinid> mod_push: {}
mod_push_keepalive: {}
[15:26:34] <Holger> Right. But yes someone™ should document his shit.
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[15:27:59] <Student> Holger: hello! mod_block_strangers is available on 18.01?
[15:28:10] <zinid> Student, yes
[15:28:20] <Holger> Hey he asked me!
[15:28:26] <zinid> sorry
[15:28:30] <Student> Holger:  zinid )))))
[15:28:31] <zinid> but I cannot wait
[15:28:32] <Holger> Ok.
[15:29:12] <Student> how it can be installed?
[15:30:00] <Holger> It's shipped with ejabberd. You mean how to enable it?
[15:30:35] <Student> I install my ejabberd from Installer on Debian 9.2
[15:30:49] <Student> is it shipped with ejabberd?
[15:30:59] <zinid> Student, yes, it's shipped with ejabberd 🙂
[15:31:07] <zinid> mod_block_strangers:
   log: true
[15:31:38] <Student> so from other hosts other people can write to me but not the spammers?
[15:31:58] <zinid> spammers will send you subscription requests instead 😀
[15:32:22] <zinid> that's why vanitasvitae asked for captcha for subscriptions
[15:32:43] <zinid> not sure that's a great solution, but whatever
[15:33:01] <Student> zinid: yes, captcha will be good
[15:33:22] <zinid> Student, it's not supported in 18.01, only in master branch
[15:34:20] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:34:23] zinid enabled mod_block_strangers with captcha just for the lulz
[15:34:24] <Student> when it will be release?
[15:34:31] <zinid> in March
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[16:32:09] <uio> > And that's it, nothing more should be configured
Thanks. Now it is being recognized.
[16:32:19] <uio> ## Default s2s policy for undefined hosts.
##
## s2s_access: s2s
##
[16:32:35] <uio> What does this setting do?
[16:33:54] <zinid> uio, you can add some bad servers to this ACL rule
[16:34:21] <zinid> if you want to reject s2s completely you can set `s2s_access: deny`
[16:34:31] <uio> Isn't it enough to have s2s_use_starttls =required for s2s to be encrypted?
[16:35:11] <zinid> uio, yes
[16:35:24] <zinid> `s2s_use_starttls: required`
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[16:37:47] <uio> Thanks
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[16:38:59] <uio> Isn't there a way to reject s2s by default and only allow a few whitelisted domains?
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[16:47:57] <zinid> SouL, Holger, were you participating the Summit?
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[18:15:48] <uio> Anyone else faced this error?
[18:15:53] <uio> 2018-02-07 02:03:42.911 [error] <0.575.0>@ejabberd_hooks:safe_apply:383 Hook c2s_unbinded_packet crashed when running mod_s
tream_mgmt:c2s_unbinded_packet/2:
** Reason = {error,{badarg,45},[{base64,decode_binary,[{file,"base64.erl"},{line,192}],2},{misc,base64_to_term,[{file,"src/misc.erl"},{line,66}],1},{mod_stream_mgmt,inherit_session_state,[{file,"src/mod_stream_mgmt.erl"},{line,603}],2},{mod_stream_mgmt,handle_resume,[{file,"src/mod_stream_mgmt.erl"},{line,394}],2},{mod_stream_mgmt,c2s_unbinded_packet,[{file,"src/mod_stream_mgmt.erl"},{line,158}],2},{ejabberd_hooks,safe_apply,[{file,"src/ejabberd_hooks.erl"},{line,380}],4},{ejabberd_hooks,run_fold1,[{file,"src/ejabberd_hooks.erl"},{line,364}],4},{xmpp_stream_in,process_bind,[{file,"src/xmpp_stream_in.erl"},{line,655}],2}]}
** Arguments = [#{tls_options => [compression_none],stream_state => wait_for_bind,mgmt_ack_timeout => 60000,mgmt_stanzas_in => 0,mgmt_max_timeout => 300,mgmt_queue_type => ram,stream_encrypted => true,tls_verify => false,stream_direction => in,mgmt_state => inactive,mgmt_resend => false,stream_restarted => true,access => c2s,stream_version => {1,0},user => <<"musimbate">>,stream_id => <<"4861585421347271257">>,stream_header_sent => true,tls_required => true,socket => {socket_state,fast_tls,{tlssock,#Port<0.15574>,#Ref<0.3546411513.1949171713.159719>},65536,#Ref<0.3546411513.1949171713.159715>,{maxrate,1000,450.1993740084895,1517940222910792},undefined},resource => <<>>,auth_module => ejabberd_auth_mnesia,csi_queue => {0,#{}},mgmt_timeout => 300,ip => {{0,0,0,0,0,65535,9221,30033},33247},stream_authenticated => true,socket_monitor => #Ref<0.3546411513.1949040641.159713>,owner => <0.575.0>,mod => ejabberd_c2s,tls_enabled => true,stream_compressed => false,server => <<"server.com">>,mgmt_stanzas_out => 0,mgmt_max_queue => 5000,pres_a => {0,nil},xmlns => <<"jabber:client">>,stream_timeout => {30000,-576460144305},mgmt_stanzas_req => 0,lang => <<"en">>,csi_state => active,shaper => c2s_shaper,zlib => true,lserver => <<"server.com">>},{sm_resume,85,<<"e1ad7af6-e103-46ca-b5b3-d17a82d4dee9">>,<<"urn:xmpp:sm:3">>}]
[18:17:13] <uio> Facing occasional "tls authentication failed" errors from Conversations. May this be related?
[18:17:14] hlad leaves the room
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[18:27:19] <zinid> no, this is not related
[18:27:37] <zinid> you also should not receive those TLS auth failures for c2s connections
[18:28:00] <zinid> uio, did you switch between clients or servers?
[18:28:09] <zinid> I also think this bug has been fixed already
[18:28:16] <zinid> Holger, ?
[18:29:14] mrDoctorWho leaves the room
[18:31:46] <zinid> ah no, it's not fixed
[18:31:53] <zinid> anyway, it's mostly a cosmetic issue
[18:34:40] <uio> > did you switch between clients or servers?
Yes, It is a home server that was running prosody. Same domain so some clients are still trying to connect and failing.
[18:35:45] <zinid> yeah, that's the problem, they provide incorrect session id to ejabberd
[18:36:01] <zinid> the session id generated by prosody
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[18:36:58] <zinid> uio, the clients cannot login at all?
[18:37:09] <zinid> they just retry in a loop?
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[18:38:39] <uio> https://share.conversations.im/yulise/xKdmGvMXQAULcpU0/tempFileForShare_20180207-023828.jpg
[18:39:04] <SaltyBones> Very old android?
[18:39:14] <SaltyBones> They sometimes don't have the crypto that the server requires...
[18:39:29] <uio> They sucees like 1 in 5 times
[18:40:19] <zinid> uio, so do you see this crash every time a client attempts to log in?
[18:40:39] <uio> > Very old android?
> They sometimes don't have the crypto that the server requires..
But same android device can connect to conversations.im
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[18:43:18] <uio> > uio, so do you see this crash every time a client attempts to log in?
Not sure if it is everytime. Will debug tomorrow and report my findings. It's late night I am sooo sleepy...
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[18:54:59] <SaltyBones> uio, which crypto is allowed is a server setting so it might be different for different servers.
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[19:09:34] <Holger> zinid: Yes both SouL and me attended the Summit (and FOSDEM).
[19:09:58] <Holger> Well I had a strong cold and only attended part of the time.
[19:10:20] <Holger> Also met vanitasvitae there.
[19:17:34] <zinid> Holger, did you like the summit? I've read brief summary and seems like there are no conclusions, just the same shit we discuss in other mucs again and again ;)
[19:20:39] <Holger> You nailed it. I think the topics were relevant, and Kev does a good job moderating such a thing. But nobody feels responsible for making sure that actual results are produced.
[19:20:53] <Holger> Sort of like the XSF in general.
[19:21:48] <zinid> that's sad
[19:22:12] <zinid> and seems like this time MIX was not even discussed ;)
[19:22:58] <Holger> You have a topic, everyone gives his random opinion, and then you move to the next topic.
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[19:23:10] <Holger> Yah indeed.
[19:23:40] <Holger> I ranted on MIX during lunch 😉
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[19:24:36] <Holger> In the end Kev asked whether people still have the energy to discuss MIX but nobody was motivated.
[19:24:58] <zinid> because nobody read the XEP :P
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[19:29:20] <SaltyBones> I think it was quite useful and for most things somebody offered to follow up with a XEP or similar.
[19:29:49] <SaltyBones> Trying to write a XEP together at such an occasion isn't doable anyway.
[19:30:07] <SaltyBones> And at least the discussions bring up possible problems and different views on things.
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[19:32:14] <Holger> SaltyBones: No I'm not saying an XEP should be written. But bringing up different views would not be my goal.
[19:32:32] <Holger> SaltyBones: People should sit together and solve problems.
[19:33:04] <SaltyBones> Huh, I would say the latter requires the former. :)
[19:33:27] <Holger> We don't need a summit for the former.
[19:33:55] <Holger> We bring up problems and different views every day.
[19:34:32] <SaltyBones> I'm not sure if we actually need it but I think discussing is easier in person and this kind of event gives people the time to focus on something for a day without being subjected to the usual distractions.
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[19:37:37] <Holger> I agree it's not needed, but the one good reason for a meeting I do see (besides "it's nice to socialize") is that it can be easier to tackle hard problems in person. E.g. because "no distractions", yes.
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[19:39:32] <SaltyBones> Hm...so what kind of hard problems would you have liked to solve?
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[19:44:47] <Holger> Bookmarks, avatars, group chat, push notifications, spam, stuff like that.
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[19:46:40] <Holger> As I said I wasn't unhappy with the topics, e.g. with going through Georg's slides. Much better than last time I joined (when the Summit was in Berlin).
[19:47:21] <SaltyBones> Well, I mean I totally agree that the summit should have been about a month to sort all the things that need sorting.
[19:47:39] <Holger> That's not my point.
[19:49:06] <SaltyBones> I know, but I haven't quite figured out what your point is exactly.
[19:49:36] <SaltyBones> I mean we discussed a bunch of topics, often with technical detail and came to some interesting conclusions several people offered to write them down.
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[19:51:54] <zinid> SaltyBones, compare it with your job: typically, after a meeting you have a bunch of tasks to do
[19:52:22] <SaltyBones> Well, a couple of people did end up with tasks.
[19:52:27] <zinid> if you don't have the tasks then the meeting is considered useless
[19:52:32] <SaltyBones> Unfortunately there is not a lot of man-power available...
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[19:54:40] <Holger> If I was the XSF, I'd acknowledge that the protocol has a number of severe issues. Regarding very basic functionality. I would set priorities and then go tackle them. And I'd put the hard problems on the Summit agenda.
[19:54:58] <SaltyBones> Ah...
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[19:55:06] <SaltyBones> well :)
[19:55:11] <Holger> The XSF takes a passive role instead.
[19:55:38] <zinid> Yeah, the current role is "Bring me the XEPs"
[19:55:58] <Holger> They wait for others to mention problems and to come up with arbitrary solutions/XEPs m
[19:55:58] <zinid> where is stpeter's "Less XEPs more code?"
[19:56:13] <Holger> And the Summit works that way too.
[19:56:39] <Holger> This is about the role definition. Not about manpower or anything.
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[19:57:44] <Holger> If the role definition was different, I'd be more motivated to put my own manpower into it, for example.
[19:58:30] <SaltyBones> I mean, I think it is a problem of man power because there is nobody who is sufficiently taking charge of things...
[19:58:41] <SaltyBones> At least if I understand you correctly.
[19:59:12] <Holger> No they disagree regarding their role.
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[19:59:35] <zinid> LOL
[19:59:53] <Holger> They do put manpower into XEP review, discussions, online meetings.
[19:59:53] <SaltyBones> ?
[20:00:16] <SaltyBones> But isn't XEPs how you fix all those things of which you say they need fixing?
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[20:02:10] <Holger> Yes you need to fix/deprecate/replace/merge XEPs (and maybe even RFCs).
[20:03:01] <Holger> And my point is this doesn't work by passively waiting for submissions and accepting them if they don't look insane.
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[20:04:46] <Holger> You need a group of people feeling responsible for fixing the shit. Not for sticking to the XEP-0001 review workflow.
[20:05:23] <SaltyBones> I agree, hence my statement: it is a problem of man power because there is nobody who is sufficiently taking charge of things
[20:05:53] <SaltyBones> Not to sound too defeatist but I have no clue how to do anything about this. :)
[20:06:23] <Holger> Whenever I brought this up, XSF people disagreed.
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[20:09:12] <Holger> If they said "we'd like to fix (1), (2), and (3), but are lacking the time", I'd probably be motivated to get involved myself. But they say "if you submit an XEP, we'll look at it". That's very different.
[20:10:19] <zinid> True
[20:11:03] <zinid> SaltyBones, imagine for example we don't write code for ejabberd and just waiting for PRs and spending time in endless meetings and discussion
[20:11:07] <zinid> sounds like XSF, no?
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[20:12:22] <zinid> furthermore, when you submit a XEP you're brutally bikeshedded by the Council and that's it
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[20:13:30] <SaltyBones> Hm.
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[20:18:35] <SaltyBones> It sounds like the worst part about this is the last ponit.
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[20:18:52] <SaltyBones> Otherwise at least nothing is stopping us from fixing things...
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[20:29:39] <zinid> I would personally design the new protocol from scratch, leaving XMPP interaction via mandatory gateways
[20:30:05] <zinid> the gateways should provide very basic functionality, like RFC6120 and that's it
[20:30:43] <zinid> but there is not enough will power in fact
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[20:31:29] <zinid> the Council cannot decide on XMPP2.0: they want to keep backward compatibility and fix things. Okay, this is not gonna work, then they resort to do nothing
[20:32:32] <SaltyBones> zinid, I agree
[20:32:34] <SaltyBones> but..
[20:32:34] <SaltyBones> ;)
[20:32:46] <SaltyBones> 1. Completely redoing things is a lot of work
[20:32:56] <SaltyBones> 2. It often doesn't turn out better
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[20:33:12] <SaltyBones> 3. Now you either have no compatibilty or you need to build that as well
[20:33:22] <SaltyBones> 4. If the new thing doesn't catch on you are still stuck with the old thing
[20:33:38] <zinid> blah-blah-blah
[20:33:39] <SaltyBones> I mean...look at matrix :p
[20:33:50] <SaltyBones> zinid, that's not a very good argument
[20:34:14] <zinid> SaltyBones, well, I don't want to debate, I disagree with almost every your point
[20:34:28] <zinid> I redo things from scratch all the time and it works just fine
[20:36:06] <SaltyBones> Then you almost definitely redo things that are a lot smaller than xmpp...
[20:36:33] <zinid> SaltyBones, yeah, I virtually rewrote ejabberd last yeay, very small things
[20:36:46] <zinid> SaltyBones, yeah, I virtually rewrote ejabberd last year, very small things
[20:38:04] <SaltyBones> Even if you had written the server from scratch, what you propose would involve that and at least one client on top...
[20:39:01] <SaltyBones> I assume you are working full-time on ejabberd?
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[20:39:14] <zinid> SaltyBones, yes
[20:39:18] <SaltyBones> cool
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[20:43:17] <SaltyBones> zinid, not that it matters but I think it would be cool if you just tried to build XMPP2.0 or whatever it would be called.
[20:43:52] <zinid> SaltyBones, I have some ideas in fact, I probably need to present them
[20:44:21] <zinid> not sure how they will be accepted, they are too radical ;)
[20:44:27] <SaltyBones> Or you could just do it, you don't really need the XSF for anything!
[20:44:35] <bowlofeggs> haha
[20:44:42] <bowlofeggs> i kinda wish the X wasn't in XMPP
[20:45:08] <bowlofeggs> it sounds nice, but in practice it means that only the most basic features can be used when not everyone has the same server/client combos
[20:48:32] <SouL> Holger, is the entire protocol needed to be redone?
[20:50:01] <zinid> SouL, I personally think yes, and there is a reason: the current problem can be easily formulated in the scope of replicating state machines
[20:50:15] <zinid> you cannot implement distributed replication on top of XMPP
[20:50:47] <zinid> I also see that the XSF doesn't recognize it, they have no experience on the topic
[20:51:11] <Holger> SouL: Depends on who you ask, I didn't say so 🙂
[20:52:14] <SaltyBones> zinid, would you mind explaining that? :)
[20:52:53] <Holger> I agree that this can be done much cleaner by starting from scratch. But for me that's not reason enough to ditch compatibility.
[20:52:59] <zinid> SaltyBones, the idea is very simple in fact: both clients and servers keep local replica and they exchange those replicas. the idea is to synchronize all replicas eventually
[20:53:16] <Holger> Matrix.
[20:53:25] <zinid> Holger, kinda
[20:53:53] <Holger> Dinner, see ya.
[20:55:47] <zinid> furthermore, in this scheme servers are detrimental in fact, it's much easier to build this poor p2p (with some help of relays for mobile connections)
[20:56:12] <zinid> furthermore, in this scheme servers are detrimental in fact, it's much easier to build this pure p2p (with some help of relays for mobile connections)
[20:57:05] <SaltyBones> and this replica
[20:57:08] <SaltyBones> is of a state machine?
[20:57:35] <zinid> yes, they just replicate their states, formally speaking ;)
[20:58:18] <zinid> SaltyBones, for example: a client writes a message to local replica, then the "replication manager" transfers the new state to other peers
[21:00:14] <zinid> that's how every key-value stores are implemented nowadays
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[21:21:43] <SaltyBones> That sounds cool for transport security but isn't the weird XMPP model actually more suitable for e2e encryption?
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[21:30:15] <SaltyBones> actually, e2e is probably not the issue but pfs is
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[21:41:37] SaltyBones reads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_machine_replication
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