Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Wednesday, February 28, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[05:35:01] <mnr11> I have looked on mod_stream_mgmt code but  can't figure out how do I detect dead/lost connection, I need to detect it while sending a message if the connection is dead I will send the message through  push notification  (I have a API for that with FCM)
[05:36:37] <mnr11> How can detect the dead connection that efficiently?
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[06:26:06] <zinid> Jan, is it you? Developing yet another chat? Just use jabber!
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[07:20:18] <mnr11> how do I send ping mannually I mean from inside a module?
[07:20:56] <zinid> mnr11, just stop doing this crazy shit you're doing
[07:21:49] <zinid> it seems like you're misunderstanding the problem and fixing non-existent problem
[07:22:16] <zinid> you MUST NEVER ping client connections, period
[07:22:22] <zinid> this is fucking pointless
[07:22:35] <mnr11> zinid, would you please give me an idea how facebook, whatsapp handles offline messages through  push notification
[07:22:49] <mnr11> okay.
[07:23:27] <mnr11> But somehow I need to detect the dead/lost connection so I could send the message to the FCM API
[07:25:47] <zinid> gosh, there is mod_push
[07:25:49] <zinid> just use it
[07:25:52] <zinid> what else do you want?
[07:27:26] <mnr11> I just need this, for the time being
[07:27:40] <zinid> what do you need?
[07:28:01] <zinid> could you please answer my last question: why mod_push is not enough?
[07:29:17] <mnr11> I'm not sure if it does detect lost connection (like when a user disconnect the internet)
[07:29:42] <mnr11> But I need to check this again.
[07:31:16] <zinid> in general case it's IMPOSSIBLE TO DETECT LOST CONNECTIONS
[07:31:33] <zinid> this is Bysantine General Problem and it's unresolved
[07:32:02] <mnr11> I kind of knew so.
[07:32:35] <mnr11> But I can send a raw tcp packet to the user?
[07:32:41] <zinid> and?
[07:33:17] <mnr11> and if I doesn't send back anything then the connection is dead
[07:33:34] <zinid> send back when?
[07:34:05] <daniel> mnr11: What zinid is trying to say. Just use mod_push. That automatically 'pings' the client for you if you will
[07:34:08] <zinid> 1 minute, 2 hours, 10 centuries?
[07:34:22] <mnr11> When user A is sending message to the user B, sending a tcp packet to the user B ?
[07:35:17] <daniel> Plus you have a relatively stable interface to ejabberd and don't need to maintain patches
[07:35:36] <mnr11> okay thannks, I need to check this out, BTW I'm not finding the doc for mod_push.
[07:36:50] <zinid> mnr11, just
```
mod_push: {}
mod_push_keepalive: {}
```
[07:37:20] <mnr11> thats it? its that simple! :)
[07:37:27] <mnr11> thanks!
[07:38:01] <daniel> And it takes care of the 1000 edge cases you haven't considered yet
[07:39:02] <mnr11> But the thing its already there, by deafult I guess
[07:39:24] <mnr11> so what is needed to be done?
[07:39:50] <mnr11> in client side?
[07:40:04] zinid spent half night to catch a bug caused by forgotten `enif_mutex_unlock(state->mtx);` yay!
[07:40:21] <zinid> threads and mutexes are great
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[07:44:16] <mnr11> daniel, how do I use  mod push with FCM/APNS services?
[07:44:48] <daniel> mnr11, read the push xep. implement your own app server
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[07:47:22] <mnr11> So I don't need to do anything with ejabberd server? since it's already configured
[07:47:38] <daniel> nope
[07:48:42] <mnr11> Still confusedd I have an API for FCM notification
[07:49:14] <daniel> your 'app server' will use that api
[07:49:32] <daniel> and 'app server' is a term explained in the push XEP
[07:49:35] <daniel> so go read that
[07:49:40] <mnr11> ok
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[07:53:36] <zinid> the terminology is moot
[07:53:48] <zinid> I was struggling to understand this XEP
[07:54:17] <daniel> zinid, the XEP is crap
[07:54:35] <daniel> on almost every level
[07:55:24] <daniel> but i don't think there is any other document describing the process
[07:55:27] <zinid> probably, likely I don't need to implement it šŸ™‚
[07:55:39] <zinid> *luckily
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[08:01:27] <mnr11> Is there any example server out there for that?
[08:03:01] <zinid> conversations.im
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[08:04:26] <mnr11> Is it free?
[08:05:01] <daniel> zinid: I think he is talking about the app server. Not the xmpp server.
[08:05:15] <zinid> daniel, ah
[08:05:18] <daniel> And no the app server used by Conversations is not free
[08:05:20] <mnr11> yeah thats right
[08:05:53] <mnr11> I'm looking for an 'app server' example
[08:06:04] <zinid> mnr11, ProcessOne sells for both FCM and APNS šŸ˜‰
[08:06:42] <zinid> mnr11, for the record, you don't need Erlang for that server, so better use the language you used to
[08:06:50] <daniel> zinid, is that using the 'official' mod_push nowadays?
[08:07:10] <zinid> daniel, no, it's still in alpha phase (not released so far)
[08:07:13] <mnr11> okay, thanks for the info
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[08:07:28] <mnr11> let me try if I can make it
[08:07:50] <mnr11> I'll may be try with Go
[08:08:16] <mnr11> cause I'm profiecient in Go :)
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[08:11:32] <zinid> I wonder why people choose Go
[08:11:40] <zinid> what was your previous language?
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[08:12:39] <daniel> hype
[08:12:57] <mnr11> For professional work it was PHP.
[08:14:00] <mnr11> I don't think its hyped for Go.
[08:14:38] <zinid> ah, indeed, after PHP Go will look amazing
[08:15:15] <zinid> seems like the niche for Go: former php/js/python coders šŸ˜‰
[08:15:28] <mnr11> I coded in Haskell couple of weeks back I found Haskell is prettier and nicer than Erlang.
[08:15:45] <zinid> mnr11, yeah, now try to write ejabberd in Haskell
[08:16:05] <zinid> (for the record: we were trying to rewrite it in OCaml, which is also "nicer" then Erlang)
[08:17:05] <mnr11> Now come to the point specific language has its specific purpose and strength
[08:18:11] <mnr11> zinid, You said you don't like Elixir, why is that?
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[08:18:26] <zinid> why would I love it?
[08:18:32] <zinid> I don't care about syntax
[08:18:40] <mnr11> I don't know
[08:18:45] <zinid> the syntax bothers me less than the colour of my car
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[08:19:05] <zinid> so I should change a language to do exactly the same just for syntax?
[08:19:15] <mnr11> I know some functional programmers, they all seem to became fan of it.
[08:19:42] <mnr11> No, I agree with that.
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[08:20:54] <zinid> I write in: Erlang, C, OCaml, a bit of Red/Rebol, they all have extremely different syntaxes
[08:21:35] <zinid> and I don't give a shit
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[08:22:23] <mnr11> ah, then why elixir syntax bothers you?
[08:22:56] <mnr11> if you don't care about syntax
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[08:40:29] <zinid> mnr11, because what will I get from using Elixir?
[08:40:44] <zinid> why would I need to switch from Erlang?
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[08:50:14] <mnr11> I'm not sure people are telling me to learn elixir as alternative of Erlang.
[08:52:40] <mnr11> Just asking, you know, you guys are senior and expert. Just trying to know if it would be a good idea to spend time on it for future stuffs.
[08:56:40] <Holger> I'm not a fan either because I agree with zinid that syntax is irrelevant so Elixir produces fragmentation for no good reason. People write libraries in Elixir, you won't use them in Erlang because you don't want to pull in Elixir for that. So you rewrite the thing in Erlang.
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[08:57:31] <Holger> The one feature it offers is that writing a DSL is nicer.
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[08:58:45] <Holger> But people really just prefer it because it looks like Ruby and Erlang looks like Prolog. Purely syntax. You don't use different concepts.
[08:59:52] <zinid> Holger, there are like 0.1% of people who writes DSLs (not to mention that writing DSLs in non-homoiconic languages is questionable)
[09:00:11] <Holger> Right.
[09:00:25] <zinid> so yes, purely for syntax
[09:04:21] <zinid> again, regarding Erlang vs Haskell vs others:
Erlang has a ton of drawbacks, no doubt, I hate some of them, but still, there are no languages which provides *all* of the following features:
1) preemtive SMP scheduler
2) hot code swap
3) runtime introspection
4) transparent clustering
[09:04:40] <zinid> if you know one let me know, I will rewrite ejabberd
[09:10:19] <vanitasvitae> Deal
[09:11:12] <vanitasvitae> Is it also a prerequisite that the language has to start with the letter 'e'? Otherwise you'd have to rename ejabberd ;)
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[09:24:12] <mnr11> yeah, I think I get it :)
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[09:36:11] <cromain> hi, me need to scedule a maintenance window on our server, ejabberd room will be stopped for few seconds
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[09:43:44] <zinid> ping
[09:44:08] <prefiks> pong
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[09:54:22] Chatroom is stopped
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[10:27:31] <Licaon_Kter> Was I banned? Oh noes šŸ˜Ž
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[12:18:33] <mnr11> Is there a way to get the socket from the packet or I have to create a record for that?
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[13:05:11] <ThUnD3r|Gr33nĀ®> ping
[13:06:20] <cromain> pong
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[13:22:59] <rom1dep> ding
[13:25:54] <Licaon_Kter> Ring
[13:27:23] <rom1dep> Rong
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[15:31:14] <ThUnD3r|Gr33nĀ®> Daaannngggg
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[17:08:55] <Holger> zinid: https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/commit/3e57850da7bf4
[17:09:06] <Holger> zinid: That hack got lost in https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/commit/ba2b650464b ...
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[17:20:47] <Holger> zinid: Overloading 'access_from' that way seems a bit weirdo to me anyway.  But maybe a new option would make sense?
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[18:44:38] frainz leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[18:47:27] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[18:48:54] <zinid> hum, we don't have access_from?
[18:57:52] ileh leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[18:58:29] <Holger> zinid: access_from still works, what doesn't work is just the extra hack that 'access_from: none' tells mod_register to not announce the stream feature.
[18:58:43] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[18:59:02] <zinid> Holger, I think this is pointless anyway since we have redirect_url
[18:59:23] <zinid> so we also need to check for redirect_url option I guess
[19:00:07] <Holger> zinid: Ah yes that would do the trick for the jabber.at use case. Mine is allowing only password change.
[19:00:45] <Holger> I mean not announcing the feature if I only allow password change (and account deletion).
[19:00:55] <zinid> patches are welcome šŸ™‚ I'm busy atm with p1db
[19:01:32] <Holger> zinid: Yes I wasn't asking you to do it, just whether that makes sense.
[19:01:48] <zinid> yes, of course all this makes sense
[19:01:57] <zinid> better usability always makes sense
[19:02:03] <Holger> šŸ™‚
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[20:00:51] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: system-shutdown
[20:00:51] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: system-shutdown
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[20:34:39] cippaciong leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[20:35:03] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[20:35:30] cippaciong leaves the room: Connection failed: timeout
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[21:13:16] ludo leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[23:24:02] SaltyBones leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
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