Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, June 22, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[06:30:21] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: done
[06:34:49] <Licaon_Kter> zinid, mfoss, Holger: sign-up button redirects to HTTP site
https://www.process-one.net/en/xmpp_radar/
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[07:48:26] <zinid> that's mfoss's zone 😉
[07:51:29] <edhelas> is this newsletter delivered in real-time as well :p ? can't wait to have a Pubsub Node for it
[07:56:06] <zinid> pubsub is not a thing anymore for ejabberd!
[07:56:13] <zinid> I'm working on MQTT support for ejabberd
[07:56:35] <edhelas> damn, ejabberd is so futuristic, I'm working on outdated tecks :( can't compete
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[07:57:01] <Alacer> zinid: MQTT for ?? like for Push... or what ??? thx
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[07:57:16] <zinid> Alacer, yes, for publish-subscribe
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[07:57:58] <Alacer> zinid: Ao ejabberd would then not support the XMPP pub sub...
[07:58:43] <zinid> there will be a somewhat limited compatibility layer for people to migrate from xmpp pubsub to mqtt pubsub
[07:58:47] <zinid> or messaging in general
[08:00:42] <edhelas> mqtt is the new xmpp
[08:01:35] <zinid> mqtt is fast and simple
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[08:08:07] <mfoss> Licaon_Kter: thanks! I’ll fix that button. Previously MailChimp didn’t support ssl on that link but they finally fixed it :)
[08:09:38] <zinid> mfoss, btw, for the future, where to report site's bugs?
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[08:11:40] <mfoss> zinid: in short time I’ll be moving P1 site to a static solution so maybe we will create a dedicated repo
[08:11:49] <zinid> ok
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[08:49:10] <Alacer> > mqtt is fast and simple
zinid: Yup but it was only written for Sensor level network and doesn't provide adequate Security layer other than TCP. Also what it implies that ejabberd would have a whole new mqtt engine built in... So then XMPP XML serialization, compression, presence and things like OMEMO would be taken care how as its a binary protocol and clients like FB messenger used MQTT as protocol and its Servers but they moved from XMPP...
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[08:50:05] <zinid> please don't start with security again 🙂
[08:50:19] <zinid> TLS is pretty much enough security
[08:51:34] <zinid> and binary protocol is awesome
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[08:51:51] <Alacer> zinid: Yup But MQTT is weaker even there ... and don't worry I am not gonna freak.
[08:52:31] <zinid> you see, my main job is highload, security is detrimental to highload
[08:52:48] <zinid> so this depends on how you look at it
[08:54:33] <Alacer> zinid: Binary is Awesome but limitations so kind of on the fly binary conversations and compatibility. We have faced this alot in Plant Side Buses network and then using MQTT as a PubSub for main SCADA site for some areas but when you have a protocol stack which has bigger packet MQTT queues are not very good...
[08:55:14] <zinid> and XML is good for bigger packets? wtf?
[08:55:24] <zinid> I don't understand your point
[08:55:47] <zinid> bigger packets are not good, whatever they are
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[09:28:02] <Holger> zinid: Wat. You ditching XMPP?
[09:28:16] <zinid> for some customers, yes
[09:28:21] <Holger> Ah.
[09:28:53] <Holger> For IM or IoT?
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[09:32:03] <zinid> for IoT so far
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[09:37:22] <edhelas> so MQTT is the new Matrix ? :(
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[09:53:03] <zinid> even better!
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[10:42:36] <Alacer> zinid:
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[10:44:22] <Alacer> zinid: Man Since I have been into Industrial Systems ans IoT is relatively new term to do same things albeit at Multiple Deployment levels. pleaae note that for MQTT payload matters alot...
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[11:38:31] <Licaon_Kter> Is `--enable-nif` useful? 🤔
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[11:46:40] <zinid> No
[11:46:57] <zinid> There are no such key anymore
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[11:58:24] <Licaon_Kter> Wat? https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/installation/
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[12:03:54] <zinid> Licaon_Kter: I already told mfoss to fix that a few days ago
[12:04:25] <mfoss> sorry, must have missed that. it was there in the old doc. so, remove?
[12:04:33] <zinid> There is also non-existing transient-supervisors switch
[12:05:04] <zinid> Yes, both switches should be just ditched
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[12:13:57] <Licaon_Kter> Ok
[12:16:31] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss:
> sorry, must have missed that. it was there in the old doc. so, remove?
Was removed in 16.01 🙄 old docs indeed
So there were merged or discarded?
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[12:34:53] <mfoss> Licaon_Kter, zinid: fixed. I also made "starting ejabberd" a major section, seems to fit better.
[12:36:10] <zinid> mfoss: 👍
[12:36:29] <Licaon_Kter> Why do the provided installers/packages on site contain two versions in lib/ for *compiler*, *kernel* and *stdlib*? 🤔
[12:36:58] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: The non-NIF case doesn't exist anymore, and transient-supervisors is now a run-time option.
[12:37:48] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: 👍
[12:40:41] <zinid> > Note: To build ejabberd, you will need Internet access, as dependencies will by downloaded depending on the selected options.
[12:40:57] <zinid> s/by/be
[12:42:44] <mfoss> zinid: 👍
[12:43:13] <zinid> Yeah, someone should proof-read the docs
[12:43:35] <zinid> But it's so boooooring 😐
[12:44:26] <edhelas> oh because people are reading the docs ? :D
[12:44:55] <mfoss> only when they have problems, and most of the times not carefully ;)
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[12:48:58] <zinid> edhelas: are they?
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[12:50:28] <zinid> BTW, I put some thought into our blown up default config and I tend finally to remove all defaults value and the majority of comments
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[12:51:01] <edhelas> /o/
[12:51:38] <edhelas> with a big // Want to configure ejabberd, RTFM at https://...
[12:51:43] <zinid> I think that 10 pages crap just pisses off the newcomers
[12:52:57] <Licaon_Kter> I'd like all the options there, but then again... moking it huge helps no one.
+1 on removing defaults
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[12:54:00] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: I wonder what Shodan can do with 5222 and `FgT5bk3` ?! 😁
[12:54:04] <zinid> having all defaults with comments in the config only makes sense when you have 10-20 options total
[12:54:32] <zinid> ejabberd counts more than 1000 options already
[12:54:38] <zinid> it's becoming pointless
[12:54:46] <Holger> 1000? Gosh.
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[12:55:16] <zinid> yep
[12:56:47] <zinid> also, the new(TM)(R) web admin will rewrite config
[12:57:38] <mfoss> Licaon_Kter: jeez, I better change that to simply 'password'… so it’s more obvious.
[12:58:40] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: I guess 🤷
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[13:10:33] <Holger> zinid: It will edit ejabberd.yml directly?
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[13:40:48] <zinid> well, I'm thinking about some version control 🙂
[13:41:09] <zinid> but configs on unixes are still not version controlled, in 2018
[13:42:00] <zinid> but yes, the idea is to modify it directly
[13:44:08] <Holger> Probably better than a separate file.
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[14:06:07] <Licaon_Kter> fqdn: mydomain.com 🤦
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[14:27:38] <zinid> fqdn is only used in sasl digest
[14:27:44] <zinid> the naming is lame
[14:28:16] <zinid> I'm also not sure what modern clients support digest nowadays
[14:28:49] <Alacer> zinid: 1000 .... this calls for a 10,000 pages of document and 100 Days of research... :P
[14:29:22] <zinid> that's why I think we need good web admin 😕
[14:29:44] <zinid> back in the days I finally was not able to configure exim for this very reason, very brutal complex configuration
[14:30:57] <zinid> I know a lot of peope who suffer from Openfire and admit that, but that's what they pay for overcomplicated configuration of ejabberd
[14:31:49] <zinid> funny enough, when I try to ditch some options, there are always people who dislike this
[14:32:12] <zinid> all these stupid *certfile* options for example
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[14:33:20] <zinid> I also think the configuration documents is not great
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[14:33:47] <zinid> we need several sections for common topics and a single man-page trash for reference
[14:34:32] <zinid> and yes, we should be able to finally generate decent manpage, even I myself lack it frequently
[14:37:07] <zinid> ah, and the main problem is that ejabberd currently is so complex, so probably only I myself can write such documentation 😕
[14:38:26] <zinid> for example, what the fuck is this: https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/faq/
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[14:39:23] <Holger> Hah.
[14:39:26] <zinid> also, ejabberd for Administrators -> Advanced Topics -> Advanced Configuration
[14:39:29] <zinid> I lol'd
[14:39:43] <zinid> https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/guide/
[14:39:49] <zinid> also looks like a trash
[14:40:03] <zinid> even for me it's hard to understand what's for what
[14:40:23] <Alacer> zinid: Can't we use the readthedocs.io thing with GitHub so every commit we.get thr docs updated...
[14:40:25] <zinid> Unattended installation
wat?
[14:41:12] <zinid> Alacer, the problem is that we have a large part of documentation for commercial version
[14:41:14] <Alacer> As alot of people may dislike this but yes my preference would also be to edit ejabberd.yml
[14:41:18] <zinid> all this stuff should be merged somehow
[14:41:38] <Alacer> zinid: Can't we section them...
[14:41:46] <zinid> yes we can
[14:41:57] <zinid> the problem is in available human resources
[14:42:03] <zinid> of course all this is doable
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[14:45:48] <Licaon_Kter> So, mfoss leaving the ship are we?
> Marek Foss  @f055
> Posted on June 21, 2018
> *Real-time Stack Issue #11*
> *Riot: A Distributed IRC and VOIP Client and Home Server*
> _Riot is a free and open source decentralized instant messaging application that can be considered an alternative to Slack. This article takes a look at features of Riot, installation procedure and usage._
[14:46:28] <zinid> mfoss, where did you get this? 😀
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[15:06:20] <Licaon_Kter> https://blog.process-one.net/real-time-stack-issue-11/
[15:06:38] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: the Fortnite post-mortem is sooo old.... 🙄
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[15:16:16] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss:
> How to Build a Private One to One Chat App from Scratch?
Did you read the article? It's an ad for some Contus services company....meh...it just installs ejabberd&psi ffs
Even the comments look like bots 🙄
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[15:25:02] <Alacer> zinid: How can the community help you... for Docs...
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[15:26:19] <zinid> Alacer, I'm not sure, I didn't think about it yet, we need to have clear repo, instead we have some replicated mess
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[15:26:33] <zinid> partially replicated
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[15:37:16] <vanitasvitae> If I configure a PubSub node to have the access model 'open', then fetching that node from an account which is not subscribed to the owner of the node should not fail right?
My ejabberd is giving me the error <error code='407' type='auth'><subscription-required xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-stanzas'/>
[15:39:59] <Holger> > If I configure a PubSub node to have the access model 'open', then fetching that node from an account which is not subscribed to the owner of the node should not fail right?
Yes.
[15:40:08] <vanitasvitae> more specifically, I get the error on the disco info request
[15:40:11] <Holger> Sounds like a bug.
[15:40:43] <vanitasvitae> Holger, I sent you a link to a log
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[15:42:00] <Holger> I just left the building 😉 And will be AFK quite a while. Maybe just post an issue on GitHub.
[15:42:07] <vanitasvitae> ok 🙂
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[15:51:54] <vanitasvitae> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/2483
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[15:58:19] <zinid> why bug?
[15:58:29] <zinid> you cannot request disco from unsubscribed user
[15:58:40] <zinid> I guess this is privacy related, no?
[15:59:25] <zinid> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/src/mod_disco.erl#L279
[16:00:02] <zinid> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/src/mod_disco.erl#L353
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[16:02:33] <Holger> I meant it's a bug if you can't query the items without subscription.
[16:04:07] <zinid> can you? I think the result can include some private info such as jid and resource
[16:04:13] <zinid> so if you send this via MUC...
[16:06:34] <zinid> <iq xml:lang='ru-RU'
    to='user1@zinid.ddns.net/tkabber'
    from='user1@zinid.ddns.net'
    type='result'
    id='21:686217'>
  <query xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#items'>
    <item name='user1'
    jid='user1@zinid.ddns.net/tkabber'/>
  </query>
</iq>
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[16:09:53] <zinid> ah, even without MUC it's presence leak
[16:10:18] <zinid> you know if a user if online by her/his bare JID
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[16:14:02] <zinid> oh, is_presence_subscribed/2 is fucking retarded
[16:14:07] <zinid> how to unseen this now 🙁
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[17:06:48] <rom1dep> Isn't the best way to document config options to use a generator parsing the source/comments, so, by definition it's always in sync and easier to coverage-test how much doc is missing?
Could be a fun GSOC 🙂
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[17:08:50] <zinid> rom1dep: yes, I also for some automated solution, at least for manpage
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[17:12:48] <mfoss> Licaon_Kter, zinid: look again, it’s a real-time focused newsletter, not xmpp one. If you want to get not-old stories, sub the newsletter. Blog posts are appearing much later.
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[17:13:42] <zinid> mfoss: yes, but it sounds like we repost ads of competetors 😀
[17:14:02] <rom1dep> Kinda, yeah
[17:14:18] <zinid> For instance, matrix is totally marketing bullshit
[17:14:51] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: the Fortnite one has a bit of a .....notrealtime😂
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[17:16:18] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: I forgot to /jk
Anyway, the other one though, Contuso whatever, that's not that fun, yes they use ejabberd for an ad with a clickbaity title
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[17:18:09] <Link Mauve> There is now an XMPP newsletter, fyi: https://xmpp.org/newsletter.html
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[17:19:16] <Licaon_Kter> Link Mauve: old news 🙄
[17:20:49] <Link Mauve> Licaon_Kter, this was for mfoss, and the other people who may not know about it reading this discussion.
[17:21:06] <Licaon_Kter> Link Mauve: there aren't any other people...
[17:21:32] <Link Mauve> How can you be sure?
[17:23:19] <Licaon_Kter> Link Mauve: ok, let me prove it...
Brb while I post a dickpic
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[17:30:30] <mfoss> Lol. But Fortnite click click. Anyway, if you have or see interesting articles related to real-time and xmpp, go ahead and email me the link mfoss at process-one dot net.
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[17:30:40] <mfoss> There are not that many :P
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