Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, June 29, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[06:15:32] <flow> Holger, can't you disable push notification if the client send a </stream>?
[06:15:58] <flow> I see that you also want to push if there is no pending SM session
[06:16:19] <flow> But it sounds like you are also pushing if the client deliberately went offline
[06:16:47] <flow> or, to be more precise: deliberately terminated the stream and closed the connection
[06:19:35] <Holger> flow: Would be fine with me if someone puts this new business rule into the XEP or if it at least was a convention followed by all clients, yes.
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[06:21:07] <flow> Do clients usually expect to receive push notifications after they successfully terminated the stream?
[06:23:29] <Holger> I think this was what Lace had in mind when writing the XEP and what client authors will assume when reading it, yes. Both ChatSecure and Monal closed the stream until Daniel and me convinced the authors not to do that.
[06:24:18] <Holger> The problem is that there are no business rules at all right now. I think Kev agreed to make some suggestions in the XEP, but not more. And this is an entirely new suggestion.
[06:25:18] <Holger> It would add a dependency on stream management.
[06:26:17] <zinid> vanitasvitae, wut, not response on your question in standards@?
[06:26:49] <Holger> flow: What's the problem with explicitly disabling notifications of you don't want notifications?
[06:27:03] <Holger> *if
[06:31:39] <Holger> Ah nonsense, no dependency on stream management of course. But I'd just stick to explicitly disabling notifications rather than adding magic rules.
[06:41:08] <zinid> 2018-06-29 09:39:34.508 [error] <0.3259.0>@mod_http_upload:process:449 Cannot handle GET request from 127.0.0.1 for zinid.ddns.net: {'EXIT',{timeout,{gen_server,call,['mod_http_upload_zinid.ddns.net/upload',get_conf]}}}
[06:44:22] <zinid> Holger, seems like the default 5 seconds timeout for gen_server:call() is too low, at least when a system is overloaded
[06:44:52] <zinid> I usually set 30 or 60 seconds
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[06:47:48] <zinid> timer:send_after()
[06:47:51] <zinid> oh shi~
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[06:48:08] <zinid> timer.erl is crap, we need to use erlang:send_after()
[06:48:39] <zinid> timer:send_after() creates a separate process to keep the timer send sends a message
[06:48:41] <flow> Holger, I'd say explicitly terminating the stream is explicitlyl disabling notifications
[06:49:01] <zinid> s/send/then
[06:49:01] <flow> zinid, it's only been one day since vanitasvitae's post
[06:49:21] <zinid> flow, yeah... we need to wait a couple of months 🙂
[06:50:43] <zinid> one of the problem of XMPP
[06:51:09] <zinid> has anyone ever wonder how we reach ~400 XEPs when XSF is so slow?
[06:51:17] <zinid> because it wasn't slow back in the days
[06:51:23] <zinid> because we had Peter
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[07:11:40] <Holger> zinid: I'm fine with whatever timeout there.
[07:11:49] <zinid> Holger, ok
[07:12:05] <zinid> Holger, I probably should stop asking you because you're fine with everything 😀
[07:12:23] <Holger> Am I? Not my impression 😁
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[07:13:16] <Holger> Ask flow 😉
[07:13:45] <Holger> I guess HTTP requests will usually time out earlier than 60s but that's no reason to keep our timeout smaller.
[07:15:02] <zinid> and while we're on this: why are you using macros for functions?
[07:15:12] <zinid> it's considered back practice now 😕
[07:15:16] <zinid> *bad
[07:15:34] <zinid> -define(URL_ENC(URL), binary_to_list(misc:url_encode(URL))).
-define(ADDR_TO_STR(IP), ejabberd_config:may_hide_data(misc:ip_to_list(IP))).
-define(STR_TO_INT(Str, B), binary_to_integer(iolist_to_binary(Str), B)).
[07:15:42] <Holger> But I did that long ago!
[07:15:48] <SouL> Not fair
[07:15:56] <Holger> I'm coming from C 🙂
[07:16:06] <zinid> right, ok 🙂
[07:16:18] <zinid> someone somewhen will fix that 😀
[07:16:20] <Holger> I'm fine with changing that to functions 😉
[07:16:46] <Holger> kk, it's on my list now.
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[07:21:00] <Holger> > I'd say explicitly terminating the stream is explicitlyl disabling notifications
Others will say it's not 🙂
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[07:45:14] <zuglufttier> The port for FreeBSD needs some testing: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229388
[07:45:22] <zuglufttier> We're on 18.06 already this time ;)
[07:45:34] <zuglufttier> Please provide feedback if something feels odd.
[07:45:36] <zinid> how do you feel 18.06? no bugs so far?
[07:47:00] <zuglufttier> Looking good so far. Will see if the push changes will do anything helpful to ChatSecure.
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[07:49:34] <flow> Holger, do you have an idea which arguments those others may have?
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[07:53:18] <Holger> flow: It's not obvious. If the client closes the stream this means it won't continue sending XML. It doesn't obviously imply it also doesn't want the server to trigger a push notification on new traffic. Especially given the fact that the XEP already has an obvious IQ to disable notifications.
[07:54:44] <Holger> I'm still waiting for an argument why you use the request to disable notifications if you want the server to disable notifications.
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[07:57:30] <flow> I didn't get the last sentence, but it is obvious to me that if the client closes the stream it means he won't continue sending *and* receive XML.
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[07:58:26] <flow> If I understand the situation correctly, then e.g. Android applications will receive push notifications after they enabled them once as long as they are installed on the device
[07:58:40] <flow> even if they are otherwhise offline and not running
[07:59:31] <flow> And that appears terrible causing a lot of unwanted pushes with all the penaltlies involved.
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[08:21:57] <Holger> I'm still waiting for an argument why you *don't* use the existing request, sorry.
[08:22:42] <Holger> > If I understand the situation correctly, then e.g. Android applications will receive push notifications after they enabled them once as long as they are installed on the device
> even if they are otherwhise offline and not running
Yes, this can happen with either of our solutions, we're just discussing syntax.
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[08:23:41] <Holger> But if you add that rule to the XEP I'll implement it and hope that not too many clients will be surprised.
[08:23:43] <flow> Holger, ahh, yes mostly added complexity.
[08:23:54] <flow> > Yes, this can happen with either of our solutions, we're just discussing syntax.
[08:24:21] <flow> I don't tihnk it can happen if the client properly closed the stream before terminating
[08:24:27] <Holger> Omitting the complexity of a single request is totally not worth the breakage you will introduce.
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[08:24:58] <Holger> I don't think it can happen if the client properly disabled notifications before terminating.
[08:25:08] <flow> Holger, what exactly would break? Are there clients that properly close the stream and expect to get push notifications?
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[08:25:45] <Holger> flow: Push notifications for clients that don't expect your role will break.
[08:25:50] <Holger> *rule
[08:26:06] <flow> Is that a yes or no to my last question?
[08:26:28] <Holger> flow: I would be surprised if there were no clients that close the stream but I don't know.
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[08:28:39] <Holger> Basically, Daniel and me invented the "close TCP without closing stream" idea out of nothing. The only two public clients which implemented push notifications closed the stream because they weren't aware of our secret idea. Until we told them. So I won't start depending on our idea without telling clients.
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[08:42:55] <404> https://blog.process-one.net/ejabberd-18-06/ Do not load ejabberd if there are any invalid options in the config, this is a bad solution. Packages for distributions often say that valid options are invalid. We will meet every update with a server crash
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[08:44:30] <Licaon_Kter> 404: what do you mean valid are invalid?🤷
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[08:48:12] <zinid> for what distributions?
[08:50:14] <404> ......
  mod_register:
    registration_watchers:
       - "admin@404.city"
[08:50:32] <404> This valid config in 18.01
This invalid config in 18.02
This valid config in 18.04
[08:51:30] <zinid> and?
[08:51:42] newbie leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[08:51:46] <zinid> this is valid config in 18.06, what's the problem?
[08:55:36] <404> This is not an isolated case. When updating often valid options, they become invalid. In the new version, this will cause a crash when upgraded, not an notification
[08:56:07] <zinid> "often"?
[08:56:15] <zinid> so often you cannot even provide an example?
[08:56:51] <mfoss> but will it cause a crash? ejabberd should not load new config if it has invalid options.
[08:57:00] <mfoss> kind of like nginx i supposed.
[08:57:07] <zinid> mfoss, it won't cause a crash of course, it will log the error and stop
[08:57:47] <mfoss> stop? or not stop, keep working without quit?
[08:58:01] <mfoss> (abort reload/restart i mean)
[08:58:16] <zinid> 11:58:04.555 [error] Unsupported URI scheme: ftp://zinid.ddns.net:5280/upload
11:58:04.555 [error] Invalid value '<<"ftp://zinid.ddns.net:5280/upload">>' for option 'put_url' of module 'mod_http_upload'
11:58:04.555 [critical] ejabberd initialization was aborted because a module start failed.
[08:58:32] <mfoss> 👍
[08:58:43] <zinid> you can try hard to call it a "crash"
[08:58:51] <zinid> *should
[09:00:04] <zinid> also, the error is so self-explanatory, should should have IQ<60 in order not to understand it
[09:00:11] <zinid> *you should
[09:00:21] <zinid> damn, I need moar sleep
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[09:02:41] <Holger> > When updating often valid options, they become invalid.
You prefer the server to silently *ignore* a setting you configured over having to fix the config? Seriously?
[09:03:01] <Holger> Just use an empty config file in that case 😜
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[09:06:47] <404> Holger, An empty configuration file also gives me an error. I preferred that he showed an error in the console, if the error is not important, then he would continue to work
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[09:07:59] <Holger> 404: There's no way for the server to distinguish between settings the admin considers important and those he doesn't care about.
[09:09:34] <Holger> 404: An admin who takes his job seriously will want to know immediately about potential upgrade issues. That's why most other servers behave this way, and I'm glad ejabberd now does as well.
[09:09:37] <zinid> you cannot use empty file, the bare minimum is:
```
hosts: ["localhost"]
```
[09:09:49] <Holger> Ok 😁
[09:09:56] <zinid> not sure if such configuration is useful, though 😀
[09:10:31] <Holger> If you're fine with the server ignoring your other settings, I'd say just go for this.
[09:11:30] <zinid> > if the error is not important
How to know that?
[09:12:14] <Holger> > How to know that?
That's what I said, just with more words!
[09:12:27] <zinid> Holger, yeah, just saw it, sorry for repeating 😉
[09:12:28] <404> The configuration file created by default does not work in two packages ejabberd for Debian 16.09 and 18.01
[09:13:04] <zinid> 404, how is this related? Also please answer our questions, you're re-iterating the same sentences again and again
[09:13:04] <Holger> So your problem is that the package maintainer ships a broken config?
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[09:13:59] <zinid> aaaaaand, that's actually the reason we introduced this, so distro maintainers will use more stuff from their brains to produce a config
[09:14:37] <Holger> 404: Or did he ship a correct config for an earlier version and you don't want to be bothered with adjusting it on upgrades?
[09:14:41] <zinid> the current approach (largely used): ok, it started, I go home
[09:15:00] <404> Sometimes the configuration is broken sometimes the packet itself is broken.
[09:16:08] <Holger> 404: So sometimes it's you not doing your admin job and sometimes the maintainer not doing his job. And you want us to ignore it so you can continue running a broken config instead of having everyone do his job.
[09:17:16] <Holger> I'm sorry but this is not how running an internet server should work.
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[09:19:06] <404> Holger, example:
[09:19:19] <404> ......
  mod_register:
    registration_watchers:
       - "admin@404.city"
This valid config in 18.01
This invalid config in 18.02
This valid config in 18.04
[09:20:35] <zinid> honestly, I somehow can understand 404's complain, but if you put that into comparison, that's lesser evil
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[09:22:42] <zinid> a conversations with an admin:
- I don't have X working!
- do you have the configuration errors?
- no!
... several hours later after debugging with ejabberd developer wasting his time ...
- indeed, there was an error in the log, I just didn't see it, sorry!
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[09:25:04] <zinid> not to mention less annoying (for me) cases when server's users complain that X doesn't work just for an admin to check the logs for configuration warnings
[09:25:21] <zinid> this is also bad because this degrades UX
[09:26:02] <zinid> so now tell me what's better?
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[09:30:09] <404> zinid,  If it speeds up the development of Ejabber it will be a plus. It's better to see in reality how it works
[09:30:54] <zinid> we analyze 15 years of reality already, incorrect configs should be prevented as early as possible
[09:31:24] <zinid> in general this is "fail early" approach and it works "in reality"
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[09:32:08] <Holger> And as I said there's a reason most software doesn't accept invalid config.  I wasn't even aware that ejabberd accepted it on purpose, I thoght it was just because implementing the config checks wasn't trivial.
[09:32:35] <zinid> Holger, we accepted it as a transient period after introducing the validator
[09:32:39] <Holger> (Because in ejabberd there's no single place which is aware of all existing options.)
[09:32:42] <zinid> to ditch all bugs of the validator
[09:32:42] <Holger> zinid: Yup.
[09:33:57] <zinid> Now we are just confident enough to do what every other sane software does
[09:34:13] sindrake leaves the room
[09:34:18] <zinid> like nginx, named and so on
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[09:37:39] <404> @gen_mod:validate_opt:620 Ignoring invalid value '644' for option 'file_mode' of module 'mod_http_upload'
[09:38:11] <zinid> and here we go: https://github.com/processone/docs.ejabberd.im/issues/46
[09:38:13] <404> ***
mod_http_upload:
   file_mode: 0644
[09:39:33] <zinid> 404, docs is for pussies?
[09:39:46] <zinid> file_mode: Mode: ... For example: "0644"
[09:40:30] <zinid> > The bits are specified as an octal number (see the chmod(1) manual page) within double quotes
> within double quotes
> double quotes
[09:40:32] <Holger> Ignoring file_mode sounds like an awesome idea.
[09:42:46] <404> zinid,  Thanks
[09:43:11] <zinid> 404, you personally just got into that trap 🙂
[09:43:45] <zinid> you can say that 0644 is the same as "0644" of course, but whatever
[09:44:10] <zinid> Holger, can't we accept both type of values by the way?
[09:44:18] <Holger> Fine with me.
[09:44:20] <Holger> :-)
[09:44:22] <zinid> ok
[09:44:48] <Holger> Maybe we could do that in a generic way for *all* strings values?
[09:45:08] <Holger> Whenever we get an atom instead of a string, convert?
[09:45:18] <Holger> And vice versa :-)
[09:45:27] <zinid> in that case the better approach is just get rid of ejabberd-specific YAML
[09:46:16] <zinid> just need to fix 1000 options, potentially introducing regressions
[09:46:18] <zinid> no big deal
[09:46:22] <zinid> who will handle that?
[09:47:10] <Holger> You!
[09:47:30] <Holger> I see how file_mode is a bit special.
[09:47:34] <404> The problem is not even with these lines, the problem with unpredictable behavior. When one and the same line produces errors in different versions.
[09:47:36] <Holger> Because it's not really a string.
[09:48:21] <zinid> 404, and? what's your suggestion?
[09:48:36] <zinid> let's recall how 15.x introduced errors
[09:48:43] <zinid> or 13.x? or 16.x?
[09:48:57] mfoss leaves the room
[09:49:05] <zinid> don't you see the source of the problem is the same: accepting invalid config
[09:50:44] <zinid> 404, also, your `registration_watchers` example is just a bug, let's do nothing because there was a bug?
[09:50:54] <zinid> and yeah, I don't buy your "often" statement
[09:51:21] <zinid> 404, really, please describe your suggestion which is better
[09:54:01] zinid leaves the room
[09:54:29] <404> Now there is no update for Debian backport, when the update comes it will be possible to see how this will work in reality.
[09:54:34] <404> I suggested explicitly showing errors when rebooting. Output the text of errors to the console, where the reboot.
[09:55:11] <404> This does not stop the work, but shows errors.
[09:55:33] <zinid> what?
[09:55:43] <zinid> who fucking read those errors?
[09:56:08] <zinid> the general admin action is "ok, the server is started, will go get some beer"
[09:56:39] lorddavidiii leaves the room
[09:56:44] <zinid> also, you ignoring what I have just said
[09:56:56] <zinid> I also don't understand how your solution is better, what will it resolve?
[10:00:19] <zinid> > how this will work in reality
again this shit...
how does this work with nginx? named?
[10:00:51] <zinid> 404, please stop
[10:00:53] <404> zinid, I want to see how this works in reality. Now there is not enough information about this. There are a number of errors associated with the transition from different versions.
[10:01:25] <zinid> there are number of errors of transitioning because of frequent SQL schema change
[10:01:46] <zinid> and schema update should be peformed manually
[10:02:06] <zinid> which is much more severe problem than just some stray configuration option in Debian 18.01
[10:04:21] sindrake leaves the room
[10:09:16] <flux> How do I need to configure ejabberd 18.06 to comply to XEP-0313?
I eneabled mod_mam (default true) and mod_muc with default room options mam:true, however the Conversations compliance tester tells me
> running XEP-0313: Message Archive Management (MUC)…             FAILED
14/15
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[10:12:01] <404> flux, https://github.com/processone/docs.ejabberd.im/issues/46 ?
[10:12:42] <flux> No, thats a different issue
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[10:14:00] <flux> >  mod_muc:
>     default_room_options:
>       mam: true
>       persistent: true
>       allow_query_users: true
>
[10:14:09] <flux> >   mod_mam:
>     default: always
>
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[10:31:56] edhelas leaves the room: Stream reset by peer
[10:33:19] <zinid> odd
[10:33:33] <zinid> what exactly failed there?
[10:34:16] tester leaves the room
[10:36:13] <zinid> what conference does it try to check?
[10:36:23] <zinid> flux, ?
[10:36:51] edhelas leaves the room: Connection failed: connection timed out
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[10:38:16] <zinid> for me it looks like it tries to discovery some existing conference where MAM is disabled
[10:38:21] <zinid> *to discover
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[10:39:24] <Holger> flux: Do you see MAM enabled when you create a new room manually?
[10:39:37] <flux> zinid: I dont know which one it tries to check. How can I specify it?
there are no verbose error messages by the ComplianceTester.
In the ejabberd log I dont see anything interesting too.
[10:39:42] <flux> Let me see
[10:40:29] <zinid> whatever, if you see mam enabled when you create a new conference then you just don't care about what compliance tester says
[10:40:31] <flux> Holger: yes
[10:40:54] <Holger> So then it's a question for the Compliance Tester support team!
[10:41:20] <flux> Alright, I will conect them then. Thanks
[10:41:51] <zinid> http://upload.zinid.ru/99bb0647172ef83f67aa892f2cd0f2fa9d04f206/QwfrRMSJx36R2MRqtlU3J1UtOYPUEuccbmrRjRNz/muc-mam.png
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[10:48:39] ThUnD3r|Gr33n leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
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[11:56:33] ingolf leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:56:40] edhelas leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
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[12:25:11] bammes leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:27:44] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:29:12] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:30:15] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
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[12:35:29] ingolf leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[12:36:40] <Alacer> Guy on a Freshly Installed Debian Stretch Box Ejabberd 1806 is Failing while Making 'make command Fails' with OpenSSL not Dependency Failure BUt Open SSL Installed version 1.1
[12:37:10] <Alacer> checking for GNU libc compatible malloc... yes
checking for ANSI C header files... (cached) yes
checking for erl... /usr/lib/erlang/erts-8.2.1/bin/erl
checking for erlc... /usr/lib/erlang/erts-8.2.1/bin/erlc
checking for SSL_free in -lssl... no
checking for SHA1_Init in -lcrypto... no
checking openssl/ssl.h usability... no
checking openssl/ssl.h presence... no
checking for openssl/ssl.h... no
checking openssl/err.h usability... no
checking openssl/err.h presence... no
checking for openssl/err.h... no
checking openssl/sha.h usability... no
checking openssl/sha.h presence... no
checking for openssl/sha.h... no
checking openssl/opensslv.h usability... no
checking openssl/opensslv.h presence... no
checking for openssl/opensslv.h... no
configure: error: OpenSSL 'ssl' library was not found
ERROR: Command ['configure-deps'] failed!
Makefile:105: recipe for target 'deps/.built' failed
make: *** [deps/.built] Error 1
[12:37:34] <zinid> "no" is everywhere
[12:37:50] <Alacer> Well everything related to SSl it say No.
[12:38:09] <zinid> that means ssl dev files are not installed?
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[12:39:23] <zinid> dpkg -l | grep libssl-dev
[12:40:13] newbie leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:40:51] <Alacer> done SSL thing done now libexpat
[12:40:55] <Alacer> thanks
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[13:35:49] <zinid> jonasw: sounds like borked docker image: xmmp library is incompatible with ejabberd or something
[13:36:08] <jonasw> zinid, ew
[13:36:57] <jonasw> why does it only occur with XEP-0191 pushes, everything else is working perfectly
[13:37:14] <jonasw> (and by everything I mean things like MUC, PEP, ...)
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[13:37:38] <zinid> Holger introduced recent to `#block_item{} ` structure recey
[13:37:48] <zinid> Holger?
[13:38:10] <zinid> *recently
[13:38:41] <zinid> I'm mistyping a lot today, sorry
[13:38:57] <jonasw> are you still on "this is a borked docker image" or could it be another cause?
[13:39:29] <Holger> Maybe processone/xmpp dependency outdated?
[13:39:43] <jonasw> who’s making the images again?
[13:39:44] <Holger> jonasw: Still on this.  I touched the 0191 stuff.
[13:40:34] <zinid> cromain: when are you going to publish new docker image for 18.06?
[13:40:56] <cromain> let's do it now
[13:41:02] <zinid> > who’s making the images again?
Christophe
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[14:01:13] <cromain> docker pull ejabberd/ecs
[14:01:19] <cromain> 18.06 is available
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[14:03:07] <zinid> jonasw, can you please retry?
[14:03:12] <jonasw> it works with that build
[14:03:28] <zinid> thanks for the report
[14:03:43] <jonasw> cromain, any chance you could try re-building the 18.04 image?
[14:04:40] <cromain> what's wrong with 18.04 ? it works fine for me
[14:04:47] <jonasw> cromain, https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/2494
[14:04:58] <jonasw> according to zinid, this looks like some dependency issue
[14:05:20] <zinid> cromain, looks like some mess with xmpp version
[14:05:23] <zinid> but I'm not sure
[14:06:45] <cromain> hum, cause of mix.lock it's using xmpp 1.1.20 instead of 1.1.21
[14:08:15] <cromain> same for tls...
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[14:44:37] <cromain> jonasw: docker pull ejabberd/ecs:18.04
[14:44:44] <cromain> should include correct xmpp version
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[15:07:47] 404 is now known as 404.city
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[16:56:24] <deavmi> Is the dudes that run the ejabberd twitter here?
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[17:02:20] <mfoss> deavmi: what do you need?
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[17:16:47] <deavmi> just wanted to say your twitter prescence is dank
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[17:18:55] <zinid> dank?
[17:19:13] <zinid> > disagreeably damp, musty, and typically cold
in this sense? 😀
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[19:28:50] <404.city> https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Kommentar-Offene-Schnittstellen-fuer-alle-wirklich-alle-4094149.html Offene Schnittstellen sind Klasse! Ich wäre froh, wenn ich statt fünf Messengern nur noch einen auf dem Handy hätte. "Das kann ja nicht so schwer sein!" denkt man sich. Die Realität dürfte aber fürs erste anders aussehen: Wenn man sich auf einen Standard einigt, dann wird es vermutlich der kleinste gemeinsame Nenner. Womöglich etwas wie XMPP.
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[21:26:48] <tnewman> hooray!
[21:27:41] <zinid> wut
[21:28:32] <tnewman> didnt realize how easy it was to connect to do the s2s thing
[21:28:37] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[21:29:42] <tnewman> do you have any experience with mod_http_upload thumbnails?
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[23:03:08] <zinid> tnewman: seems like no oss clients support it and will never do due to e2ee concerns
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