Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Tuesday, March 3, 2020< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[00:39:22] <Licaon_Kter> af: depends on you actually, you can cluster it yes...but you probably don't need it
Also, all the other stuff can be "clustered" too...why does it matter?
[00:39:55] <af> Licaon_Kter: because I haven't opened the wikipedia article for cluster… yet
[00:40:30] <Licaon_Kter> Don't bother, the rule is: "if you don't know what it is, you don't need it"
[00:41:03] <af> I don't know what's monitoring 🤔
[00:41:40] <Licaon_Kter> There you go...
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[02:46:22] <Alacer> > https://blog.process-one.net/suggestions-for-assessing-our-carbon-footprint/
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[06:01:35] <Licaon_Kter> Alacer: so what?
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[06:04:48] <Alacer> Licaon_Kter: I like the idea by the way...
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[06:05:41] <Licaon_Kter> Mmmkay
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[12:49:46] <tyler> Man there are some strange ideas about XMPP out there.
https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe/issues/2965
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[12:56:39] <Licaon_Kter> Thanks for the common sense...
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[13:04:28] <robertooo> Oh my, the Telegram cancer spreads everywhere..
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[13:13:24] <robertooo> Just makes me think that no communication platform can succeed without a talentful manipulation operation.
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[14:37:23] <mss_cyclist> Then let's start to manipulate in favour of XMPP 👍
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[14:38:50] <edhelas> "Have you heard about XMPP ? it's a new protocole, the guys took all the flaws in Matrix and fixed it in this new project, looks promising!"
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[14:45:12] <Licaon_Kter [cnvrs]> You can be our PR person
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[14:46:37] <edhelas> Extensible Matrix Perfect Protocol 👌
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[15:55:51] <raver> > edhelas hat geschrieben:
> Extensible Matrix Perfect Protocol 👌
😁👍✌️
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[15:59:18] <mss_cyclist> X panding M ighty P eople P rogram
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[16:15:41] <tyler> The biggest issue with XMPP for me is on the client side... There's not "a" client / brand to point people at across the platforms. And the IOS experience is just garbage from what I can tell. The moneyed interests in things like Telegram give you that consistency across platforms that people want, and that makes a thing feel right.
[16:16:26] <tyler> Server admins have no problem adding addons for things like IRC bridging... but users don't really want to have to run 4 different clients on 4 different OSes.
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[16:18:48] <mss_cyclist> tyler: at least there is Conversations 🙂
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[16:19:17] <tyler> Yeah, conversations is amazing for Android users.
[16:19:25] <tyler> Probably the only reason i have an XMPP ecosystem
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[16:21:33] <mss_cyclist> Question to the European (Ejabberd) Admins:
How would you comply to the GDPR if a user asks to send her/him his data? The user is more or less anonymous. How would you ensure the right person gets his data as demanded by law? It would not be acceptable to send this to the wrong person.
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[16:22:29] <Licaon_Kter> mss_cyclist: send via xmpp to the user?
Or if you have assoc email....
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[16:23:12] <edhelas> tyler you're blaming SMTP to have Outlook, Thunderbird and Gmail ?
[16:23:35] <mss_cyclist> Licaon_Kter: that would imho be the only chance. However I dont know how many megabytes the client could accept.
[16:23:52] <Licaon_Kter> tyler:
> but users don't really want to have to run 4 different clients on 4 different OSes.
Because their poor little brains explode? Oh poor things...let big brother make it all better....install Sign/Teleg/Whata/Line/Wech/Vibe/ oh...wait...what was I saying?
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[16:24:11] <Licaon_Kter> mss_cyclist: 7zip, volumes...
[16:24:16] <edhelas> damn I'm lost, can't install Thunderbird on my Android phone or iPhone
[16:24:29] <edhelas> how can I read my emails then 🤔
[16:24:33] <tyler> edhelas: Most people just have gmail now.
[16:24:43] <Licaon_Kter> Or, host the file, 7Z & password, share link & pass via OMEMO
mss_cyclist: ^^^
[16:25:03] <tyler> Not meeee, but most people went that route.... one consistent feeling interface, all the same things and behavior each time they log in.
[16:25:05] <edhelas> tyler no, most people knows that you can have different mail boxes in different mail clients
[16:25:21] <Licaon_Kter> tyler:
> Most people just have WA now.
Fixxxed
What are you tyler doing here then?
[16:25:25] <mss_cyclist> Licaon_Kter: this is a good idea.
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[16:25:55] <tyler> Maybe it's a U.S. thing. Literally every single person I know outside of workplace, their primary email address is @gmail.com, and they only use gmail branded products to access it.
[16:26:22] <tyler> Licaon_Kter: I'm a big fan and user of XMPP. That was me posting for XMPP in the NewPipe issues thread.
[16:26:24] <mss_cyclist> tyler: another U.S, thing is using IOs instead of Android
[16:27:01] <edhelas> > be me
> check my inbox
> at least 75% of my incoming emails are not coming from gmail
[16:27:11] <tyler> It has weaknesses that have nothing to do with the protocol, or the servers... It's because it's free and open, there's not one company that wants to keep it free and open _and_ provide the unified easy experience that users across different platforms want.
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[16:27:29] <tyler> Every company that can make money off of it ends up closing their ecosystem.
[16:27:31] <tyler> Like Google did.
[16:27:49] <Licaon_Kter> mss_cyclist: did you read https://gitlab.com/libremonde-org/papers/research/privacy-matrix.org/-/tree/master/part2 ? You'll find the info you need
[16:27:58] <tyler> All of my carefully encrypted protonmail emails... going out to gmail users. Arghhhh
[16:28:35] <Licaon_Kter> Don't send then...
[16:28:51] <edhelas> protonmail is only secure if you send to protonmail accounts no ?
[16:28:55] <tyler> Right
[16:29:01] <edhelas> 🤷
[16:29:02] <tyler> That's why it's annoying. :-P
[16:29:02] <Licaon_Kter> edhelas: silos everywhere
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[16:29:34] <Licaon_Kter> 'Cause you know, working with Tutanota/etc would be...not-sile oriented
[16:29:42] <Licaon_Kter> 'Cause you know, working with Tutanota/etc would be...not-silo oriented
[16:29:44] <mss_cyclist> Licaon_Kter: Thanks for the link. I was not aware how complex this GDPR thing is. This *$$%# delays the opening of my XMPP server
[16:29:51] <tyler> One of my longest term friends switched to IOS because Snapchat or something works better on IOS. Ugh. But now we basically don't talk... because Monal doesn't work well.
[16:30:52] <Licaon_Kter> tyler:
>  I'm a big fan and user of XMPP. That was me posting for XMPP in the NewPipe issues thread.
Rethoric question..c'mon get with the program
If you can't explain the *power* of xmpp ond complain about "different app names", then why bother? Why would your contacts bother?
[16:31:39] <tyler> The average person doesn't care about something bein open... or secure... or distributed... etc... they just want easy. That's why we're in the various pickles we're in re: mass surveilance.
[16:31:56] <Licaon_Kter> tyler: because Snapchat is dumb and instead of taking an actual photo, they were (still are?) opening a camera view and SCREENSHOTED THE VIEW....mtfkrs
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[16:32:02] <tyler> The only reason I can get people using nextcloud and XMPP is because that's where I share baby photos
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[16:32:22] <edhelas> so we need to share more cats photos on XMPP
[16:32:25] <tyler> Yes
[16:32:32] <tyler> XMPP: The premier cat posting protocol
[16:32:36] <edhelas> i'm convinced of that
[16:32:55] <edhelas> I'm serious there, people will come on XMPP if they maybe have good clients
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[16:33:03] <edhelas> but most certainly if they have good content
[16:33:30] <edhelas> we can create the best clients/servers in the world, if there's nothing interesting to show people will not come
[16:33:36] <mss_cyclist> edhelas: cat posting would draw me away from whatever communication tool it is
[16:34:13] <tyler> https://xmpp.schwend.us/xfer/tyler/pJzYuCDK2VRrCyA0smaawdzmQLQkCYSjCeCJKQMY/Screenshot_2020-03-03_11-34-05.png
[16:34:30] <tyler> LEAVE
[16:34:32] <tyler> Haha
[16:34:46] <mss_cyclist> I am away
[16:35:32] <Licaon_Kter> > The only reason I can get people using nextcloud and XMPP is because that's where I share baby photos
Yup...this is the key...
[16:35:59] <tyler> You need a few crazy bastards who care about the openness and whatnot... And I think the people in this room fit that category.
[16:36:21] <mss_cyclist> That is how I convinced friends to use my xmpp server 😃
[16:36:36] <tyler> But in the end, if it's difficult or infeasible for their contacts to use whatever technology to communicate with them, it just makes shut-ins who have no friends.
[16:36:48] <tyler> Fortunately, only a few people I care about use IOS.
[16:37:38] <tyler> "I posted it on Facebook/MySpace/Instagram/Snapchat/Conversations/Apple Chat thing!" "Yeah well I don't and won't use that."
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[16:38:14] <tyler> This room isn't gonna fix the client problem... And I'm happy to give thumbs up for the stability and usefulness of ejabberd. :-) Good work. Heh.
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[16:39:39] <Licaon_Kter> 👍
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[17:40:43] <robertooo> > Not meeee, but most people went that route.... one consistent feeling interface, all the same things and behavior each time they log in.
That's why we should have cross platform clients
> But in the end, if it's difficult or infeasible for their contacts to use whatever technology to communicate with them, it just makes shut-ins who have no friends.
From my experience people who don't want to chat with me on one of XMPP, Matrix, Signal even though we know each other well aren't in fact worth it. Besides, Whatsapp or Facebook aren't omnipotent, good old SMS/phone calls are though and whenever someone doesn't use one of these three and doesn't want to use it we happily use SMS and phone calls instead. Facebook doesn't have the bigger user base, Phone No federation does, I really hate people using this argument as it's very manipulative.
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[17:43:26] <robertooo> Matrix did that with Riot (except it's not a whatsapp replacement but a slack replacement) and Signal with Signal clearly seeing that's it's important for adoption
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[17:44:54] <mss_cyclist> > ... Signal with Signal ...
That does not make sense
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[17:45:19] <robertooo> Wispher Systems*
[17:45:31] <robertooo> Snikket seems to want to do something like this for XMPP
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[17:47:34] <Licaon_Kter> robertooo: doesn't do anything new, yet
[17:47:47] <robertooo> Yes, they just rebrand
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[18:29:05] <tyler> Yeah, I think the Snikket effort is a good one... But they just did the easy part.
[18:29:22] <tyler> They don't want people to say "Hey hit me up on Conversations over XMPP with your Monal client"
[18:29:30] <kevin> i dont understand why /g/ doesnt really like xmpp
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[18:29:45] <tyler> IOS users?
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[18:30:28] <tyler> I opened an issue on Monal's DNS being broken, which broke push messages... and I don't even use Monal... That's how important XMPP is to IOS / Monal users.
[18:30:38] <tyler> How the heck was I the first person to notice/report.
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[18:38:01] <Licaon_Kter> Amen brother
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[18:40:07] <tyler> > You can list the IRC channels on a given IRC server by sending an XMPP disco items request on the IRC server JID.
[18:40:13] <tyler> How would you do that in say, Gajim....
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[18:42:25] <kevin> I want to be able to browse IRCS with xmpp
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[18:46:39] <tyler> You need biboumi
[18:46:42] <tyler> On your server.
[18:47:15] <kevin> hm
[18:47:31] <tyler> And then channels are #channel%chat.freenode.net@irc.xmpp.whaetverxmppserver.com
[18:47:48] <tyler> #channel%ircserver@biboumiservicedomainthing
[18:48:03] <tyler> Works well.... my favorite part is that you get IRC history. :-)
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[18:57:33] <kevin> really cool man
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[20:50:04] <Ellenor Malik> > edhelas has written:
> "Have you heard about XMPP ? it's a new protocole, the guys took all the flaws in Matrix and fixed it in this new project, looks promising!"
Snikket?
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[20:54:10] <Licaon_Kter> Ellenor Malik: no, it's reverse psychology ;)
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[20:55:24] <Ellenor Malik> I recently bought a domain with the aim of white labelling multiple XMPP clients across multiple platforms.
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[20:56:43] <Licaon_Kter> Was `d1ckp1c5.im` still available?
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[20:57:46] <Ellenor Malik> I was not horny enough to check.
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[21:00:15] <Licaon_Kter> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[21:07:18] <perflyst> > protonmail is only secure if you send to protonmail accounts no ?
what, why?
[21:07:39] <Licaon_Kter> perflyst: because....pgp
[21:07:39] <perflyst> you can gpg encrypt to protonmail and also from proton to external
[21:07:44] <perflyst> proton even has wkd
[21:09:03] <Licaon_Kter> perflyst: yes, but most don't, because if they did they do it already without proton
[21:09:25] <perflyst> so what is the issue?
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[21:09:44] <perflyst> if non-proton ppl dont care about encryption okay
[21:09:48] <perflyst> but if you want you can
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[21:11:52] Ellenor Malik is now known as ellenor@umbrellix.net
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