Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Tuesday, June 16, 2020< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[02:50:59] <Licaon_Kter> Eelco: and ?
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[03:07:24] <Eelco> How correct do you think the compliance test is in that case?
[03:07:39] <Eelco> When I dig the records I get a response as expected
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[03:11:16] <Licaon_Kter> Eelco: so you have these https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SRV_Records#XMPP_SRV_records ?
[03:11:49] <Eelco> Yes
[03:12:47] <Eelco> Licaon_Kter, _xmpp-client._tcp.srv2.searacon.nl. 10875 IN SRV 5 0 5222 srv2.searacon.nl. for example
[03:13:27] <Eelco> I do have more than 1 hostname and I do not have them for all the hostnames. Could that be the reason?
[03:14:23] <Eelco> Then again, the check is on server name. Not really sure if it can derive the other hostnames from the scan.
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[05:07:05] <riau illiyyin> _xmpp(s)-client._tcp.srv2.searacon.nl.
Maybe you missed the (s) ?
>  _xmpp-client._tcp.srv2.searacon.nl. 10875 IN SRV 5 0 5222 srv2.searacon.nl. for example
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[07:22:58] <nuron> !info chapril.org
[07:23:00] <Servant> nuron: chapril.org is running since 5 days 5 hours 8 minutes 12 seconds
chapril.org is running ejabberd version 18.12.1-2 on unix/linux 4.19.0
contact addresses for chapril.org are
- support-addresses : mailto:xmpp-support@chapril.org , xmpp:chapril@muc.chapril.org?join
- abuse-addresses : mailto:xmpp-support@chapril.org
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[07:36:03] <Licaon_Kter> nuron:  so old....backports has 20.04 update
[07:36:28] <nuron> True
[07:36:38] <nuron> !info jabber.lima-city.de
[07:36:38] <Servant> nuron: jabber.lima-city.de is running since 1 year 25 weeks 4 days 19 hours
jabber.lima-city.de is running ejabberd version 15.07 on unix/linux 3.13.0
jabber.lima-city.de has no contact addresses configured.
[07:36:47] <nuron> Licaon_Kter: much better🤣
[07:37:03] <Licaon_Kter> Lol
[07:37:10] <nuron> Have a look at the ejabberd and kernel version....
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[07:56:59] <Eelco> riau illiyyin, I have the ones with _xmpps as well. Even though they are not on the page referenced at the compliance check
[07:57:31] <Licaon_Kter> Eelco: can you run CaaS locally and see the actual reason maybe?
[07:58:00] <Eelco> Licaon_Kter, What is that?
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[07:59:11] <Licaon_Kter> Lol
https://github.com/iNPUTmice/caas
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[08:01:21] <Holger> > riau illiyyin, I have the ones with _xmpps as well. Even though they are not on the page referenced at the compliance check
They're not? XEP-0368 is *only* about _xmpps.
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[08:01:56] <Holger> I assume you have separate `tls: true` listeners your _xmpps records are pointing to?
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[08:09:49] <Eelco> That might be the issue then. Perhaps I can find some better documentation.
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[09:10:14] <mfoss> Eelco: I think this and the previous tutorials in ejabberd series will be helpful https://www.process-one.net/blog/how-to-configure-ejabberd-to-get-100-in-xmpp-compliance-test/
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[09:11:21] <mfoss> I plan to post today another short one with my full ejabberd.yml
[09:11:44] <Holger> mfoss: I still believe they don't make clear how you need to add `tls: true` listeners before adding the _xmpps SRV entries ;-)
[09:12:13] <Holger> Otherwise I would've cited your blog article already.
[09:13:25] <mfoss> Hmm thanks :) maybe I should update the paragraph there. I mention `tls: true` in prev parts which makes it all not obvious.
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[09:15:59] <Eelco> mfoss, Thanks, I'll look into that. It's the last one keeping me from being fully compliant :)
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[09:18:58] <ij> @mfoss I think in the meanwhile you’ll also need to pass STUN/TURN test to have 100% result in Compliance Tester… maybe you should add this to you blog post?
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[09:23:24] <mfoss> @ij it’s already there in the previous tutorial
[09:23:37] <ij> oh, ok :)
[09:23:53] <mfoss> np :)
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[09:25:51] <mfoss> Btw if anyone’s using Trillian on macOS for XMPP, don’t update to latest version with round icon. It crashes hard on every sent message.
[09:26:53] <mfoss> So far BeagleIM is quite ok for macOS. I managed to build it from source but changed the icon on my local install though.
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[09:31:47] <mike> I nearly forked it just to change the icon a while back, but ended up not using a Mac so much after all and didn't need to.
[09:32:27] <mike> That dog sure is a lot when it's staring at you from the dock all the time.
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[09:36:46] <mfoss> mike: my thoughts exactly. it’s easy to change the app/dock icon without compiling, it’s enough to simply Get Info on the app in Applications, click on the icon in the Get Info window and cmd+v paste a different one. But to fix the icon in the top status bar you need to recompile. The icons are a bit of a drawback as both Beagle and Siskin are working quite well as XMPP clients.
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[09:46:19] <ij> basically I added „support“ for MySQL queries for the ejabberd-nodeinfo script, but in fact the MySQL queries are missing… anybody in here has MySQL as backend and would be willing to help out?
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[09:53:40] <ij> https://github.com/ingoj/ejabberd-nodeinfo2
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[12:48:01] <mfoss> I published a post about some additional config steps in the ejabberd tutorial series, as well as a full config file of my setup https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-xmpp-server-useful-configuration-steps/
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[13:03:22] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: you had one job
> Conslusion
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[13:08:27] <mfoss> Hahaha good one
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[13:10:30] <mfoss> Thanks, fixed. Should be good once cache refreshes.
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[13:15:07] <Licaon_Kter> Those fancy iDevices can't into spellcheck?
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[13:18:36] <mfoss> Licaon_Kter: Firefox glitches in textareas and doesn’t apply spellcheck unless one re-enables it.
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[13:21:21] <Licaon_Kter> Oh
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[14:05:53] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: `Check ejabberd XMPP server useful configuration steps`
Doesn't sound correct to me, maybe `Checking the ejabberd XMPP server - useful configuration steps` or smth
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[15:26:08] <Licaon_Kter> mfoss: thoughts
`loglevel: warning` right?
`ca_file`? Why?
No `hide_sensitive_log_data: true` ?
5223 `tls` and `starttls`? Both?
No `zlib: true`?
5270 with `tls`? Never saw that, so all my s2s was insecure?
But then `s2s_use_starttls: optional`?  Why not `required`?
`max_fsm_queue` is by default 10000, no reason to have it in the config
`mod_offline`, no store_groupchat and use_mam_for_storage ?
`mod_pubsub`, no need for `ignore_pep_from_offline: false` or `last_item_cache: true` ?
`mod_s2s_dialback` ? Is this good security?
Ooops..did I go overboard? :D
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[15:33:09] <mfoss> Licaon_Kter: the more the merrier :)
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[15:34:17] <mfoss> Hmm most of my settings are ejabberd defaults, but you have valid questions.
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[15:38:26] <Licaon_Kter> My settings (hence my questions) evolved a bit based on feedback around here.
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[15:41:46] <mfoss> It’s good that you point this out, because my config in the post is based on the default one shipped with 20.03 .deb
[15:42:35] <mfoss> But we noticed a bug there, because .deb was using an old default config file and not the one from the repo https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/ejabberd.yml.example
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[15:44:56] <mfoss> Consistency is a problem here, because my tutorials were on-hands, meaning I did exactly what’s written there with all issues involved. So for now, the blog post config should remain as is, for consistency with the tutorials that based on .deb 20.03 & 20.04.
[15:46:21] <mfoss> I will mention in the post link to that repo example as the official reference.
[15:46:46] <Licaon_Kter> Right
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[15:55:12] <mfoss> It’s possible I will repeat this process with future ejabberd versions and update the tutorials accordingly.
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[15:57:35] <Neustradamus_> mfoss: nice!
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[16:19:25] Holger disagrees with half of Licaon_Kter's suggestions FWIW 🙂 Ask two people get three opinions!
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[16:20:00] <Licaon_Kter> Of course, I must have misunderstood those settings and such...feel free to argue...please
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[16:54:32] <Holger> Things like `hide_sensitive_log_data` are trade-offs (privacy vs. debugging). No there's no right or wrong, but I see no point in choosing one side as default and going for the other in p1 tutorials.
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[16:56:29] <Holger> s2s security stuff (such as disabling Dialback) is overrated. Attack vectors those protect against are very much academic AFAICS, and the cost is interop. If you need "security" you should do E2EE.
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[16:57:20] <Holger> In general I'd keep changes to the default config to a minimum. If the default config is crap we should change it (or rather, the defaults in the code).
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[16:58:30] <Holger> `ignore_pep_from_offline` is a no-op these days. Unfortunately. Offline handling should be fixed and the option should go away. (Not trivial, unfortunately.)
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[16:59:06] <robertooo> > Things like `hide_sensitive_log_data` are trade-offs (privacy vs. debugging). No there's no right or wrong, but I see no point in choosing one side as default and going for the other in p1 tutorials.
How is this a trade-off in a situation when someone doesn't look at logs?
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[16:59:23] <Holger> `store_groupchat`?
[16:59:50] <Holger> robertooo: What situation is that? You're assuming a dumb admin as the target audience?
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[17:00:00] <robertooo> When someone gets to a point when they need to watch logs, then they can enable that.
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[17:00:30] <Holger> Are you running a public server?
[17:00:44] <Holger> You get requests about past issues quite regularly.
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[17:01:28] <Holger> With your reasoning, why not disable logging altogether by default? You can always enable it.
[17:01:30] <robertooo> But I can also say that the most important thing about logs is automaticly purging them often.
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[17:01:44] <robertooo> We're talking about sensitive logs.
[17:01:50] <Holger> Sure you can say any nonsense.
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[17:02:04] <Holger> We're talking about IP addresses. L
[17:02:07] <Holger> We're talking about IP addresses.
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[17:02:21] <Holger> I hope you don't use a browser to surf the web.
[17:02:41] <Holger> Web servers typically STORE YOUR ADDRESS.
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[17:03:12] <robertooo> Why would you think so? Any reasonable admin will not trust logs on the machine, hence they should be purged and only analized after breach on a remote log-fetching machine.
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[17:03:39] <Holger> …
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[17:03:53] <Holger> I'm not going to continue arguing this nonsense.
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[17:05:10] <Holger> My point was not about this trade-off (despite having a strong opinion in this case).  My point was, if the defaults are wrong, we should change the defaults rather than write against them in blog articles.
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[17:15:02] <mfoss> Good point Holger 👍
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[17:23:05] <Licaon_Kter> > s2s security stuff (such as disabling Dialback) is overrated. Attack vectors those protect against are very much academic AFAICS, and the cost is interop. If you need "security" you should do E2EE.
Once... With pixart server, fixed sinco then iirc, so not bad
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[17:24:58] <Licaon_Kter> > Things like `hide_sensitive_log_data` are trade-offs (privacy vs. debugging). No there's no right or wrong, but I see no point in choosing one side as default and going for the other in p1 tutorials.
Feels a simple option specialy for private users wanting ...privacy...not a GDPR fix...but a bit of peace of mind. Not sure you need to see IPs flying in your logs. Like above I don't remember needing this more than once, eg. When I had to setup 368 since a firewall was messing things up
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[17:25:34] <Licaon_Kter> > In general I'd keep changes to the default config to a minimum. If the default config is crap we should change it (or rather, the defaults in the code).
Of course, I was asking for myself more, as those options ended up in my config is the last 2 years.
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[17:26:02] <Licaon_Kter> > `ignore_pep_from_offline` is a no-op these days. Unfortunately. Offline handling should be fixed and the option should go away. (Not trivial, unfortunately.)
This was recomended since the start, did it go  away?
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[17:26:37] <Licaon_Kter> > `store_groupchat`?
In MAM...right?
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[17:29:15] <Licaon_Kter> ...as in fold all offline storage in MAM since having two storage options for basically the same message (when the user is not online) was rather odd...and etc
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[17:30:23] <Licaon_Kter> > I hope you don't use a browser to surf the web.
> Web servers typically STORE YOUR ADDRESS.
Why are they storing the IP address? For how long? What do they do with it?  Etc etcetc
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[17:59:50] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: I don't need IPs in logs every day, but sometimes it's very useful to correlate connections while tracking down issues. Or simply for "hey I'm the admin of example.com, why can't I talk to your server?" With hide_sensitive_log_data I can't grep for connection attempts from his server's address.
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[18:00:01] <mightyBroccoli> I wS, wondering about the 5223 port config. Ist that port used for xmpp over tls and should use direkt tls instead of starttls?
[18:00:27] <Holger> And the privacy win of hiding your IP address isn't that obvious to me.
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[18:01:38] <mightyBroccoli> > Licaon_Kter: I don't need IPs in logs every day, but sometimes it's very useful to correlate connections while tracking down issues. Or simply for "hey I'm the admin of example.com, why can't I talk to your server?" With hide_sensitive_log_data I can't grep for connection attempts from his server's address.
Can confirm this. Thee is no real point in that if you only log warning and higher you potentially cripple your debugging options
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[18:07:36] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> > Holger Wrote:
> And the privacy win of hiding your IP address isn't that obvious to me.
It's the law in some countries.
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[18:16:14] <Licaon_Kter> mightyBroccoli: of course you might need that when you debug....a live issue....not sure it's useful 24/7...
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[18:26:28] <Holger> Ellenor Bjornsdottir:
[18:27:01] <Holger> Ellenor Bjornsdottir: I'm obviously not suggesting admins should not adhere to law.
[18:27:12] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Holger: You effectively are
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[18:27:25] <Holger> By saying what?
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[18:27:46] <robertooo> Can't one just replace IPs with unique IDs?
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[18:28:09] <Holger> I argued against blog articles writing against our default settings.
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[18:28:55] <Holger> And I got side tracked to argue against hiding IP addresses by default in ejabberd.
[18:29:33] <Holger> This implies I'm arguing against admins adjusting configs to adhere to relevant laws?
[18:30:44] <Holger> So Apache, Nginx, and basically all other Internet daemons I've seen effectively suggest some to break their law?
[18:31:37] <Holger> If New Zealand tells admins to not ever log anything under any circumstances, should we remove all logging code?
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[18:44:50] <Licaon_Kter> This escalated quickly 🙂 🙂
[18:46:21] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> > Holger Wrote:
> If New Zealand tells admins to not ever log anything under any circumstances, should we remove all logging code?
we should ensure admins under Aotearoa jurisdiction are told that logging is an offense against the Crown
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[20:28:10] <Alacer> Holger:
> I argued against blog articles writing against our default settings.
+1 agree, I believe in 2018 from 1806-1812 it was a daily discussion about defaults and certain P1 Developetd worked alot on havng defaults those match most scenariod. off-coirse if defaulys doesn't suit one he/she could modify config accordingly...
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[20:38:23] <Felix141> (How) Can I use client certificate authentication with ejabberd?
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[21:28:41] <Holger> You can 🙂
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[21:29:02] <Holger> Felix141: https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/commit/8b29af62
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[21:32:59] <Holger> FWIW I didn't mean to argue against blog articles above, of course. IMO they totally make sense to describe setups that go beyond the default config which tries to keep things simple. E.g. setting up SQL, web clients, XMPPS, multiplexing on port 443, and so on.
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