Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Saturday, September 5, 2020< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[07:56:27] <Holger> conv, no idea, I think both should work, but personally I have no experience with either.
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[08:12:55] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд: the joke is that you can encrypt all you want, under gov pressure people will talk
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[08:23:45] <Сейд> Do you think encryption is not necessary?
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[08:30:46] <Holger> I think OMEMO makes some sense when using family & friends servers, e.g. when you're ranting about your brother and he's the server's admin.
[08:32:03] <Holger> But for the "illegal activists protect against hostile gov" use case XMPP might not be the best choice in the first place.
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[08:37:45] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд:
> Do you think encryption is not necessary?
It offers the "privacy of a one on one conversation", but in the end the "other one" might tell on you.
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[08:37:56] <Licaon_Kter> Search about "threat model"
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[08:39:03] <Holger> This problem also limits the value of hiding your rant from your brother 🙂
[08:40:26] <Licaon_Kter> > But for the "illegal activists protect against hostile gov" use case XMPP might not be the best choice in the first place.
Nothing offers protection from that since you'll need no be in meatspace to act on that in the end
[08:40:34] <Licaon_Kter> > But for the "illegal activists protect against hostile gov" use case XMPP might not be the best choice in the first place.
Nothing offers protection from that since you'll need to be in meatspace to act on that in the end
[08:40:46] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд: sorry, meatspace means real world
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[08:41:18] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд: rubberhose means just that, they'll beat you till you spill everything, no need to break encryption
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[08:44:15] <Holger> True, you're never safe™ from your communication being published. But obviously p2p solutions force them to do the beating as opposed to silently grabbing data from servers. Might or might not be an advantage.
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[08:47:09] <Licaon_Kter> p2p has another issue, everytime you connect they know it's to the other person
Like saying "Use Tor", great, but unless you always use Tor, when you use it it will signal that you are doing something special.
[08:47:30] <Holger> Whereas the value of E2EE for client-server solutions keeps striking me as being totally overrated.  There's attack vectors E2EE might protect against, but this all-or-nothing hype makes no sense to me.
[08:47:31] <Licaon_Kter> That's one of the Signal's marketing with "blend in the crowd"
[08:48:13] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: server seizure, that's the usecase
[08:48:32] <Holger> True but it often _is_ easier to access a server than to access the network between you and your peer.
[08:48:57] <Licaon_Kter> Room 641? Lol
[08:49:20] <Licaon_Kter> Room 641A? Lol
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[08:49:43] <Holger> I guess if they're really after you specifically they may well target your device and then none of this matters.
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[08:50:17] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд: do read their uses ux etc reports
https://delta.chat/en/blog
...as they mostly test in Russian space
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[08:50:47] <Holger> > 641A
Maybe. 🤷‍♂️️
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[08:55:48] <Licaon_Kter> If they cut the internet, they're already in...
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[09:04:17] <Сейд> Holger: and what is better XMPP in your opinion?
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[09:04:55] <Holger> What is better than XMPP? Or how is XMPP better than others?
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[09:05:46] <Сейд> Holger [11:32]:
> But for the "illegal activists protect against hostile gov" use case XMPP might not be the best choice in the first place.
First.
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[09:06:12] <Сейд> https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/admin/15537263
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[09:08:48] <Holger> If I was Greenwald and wanted to talk to Snowden I'd probably have a look at p2p solutions despite Licaon_Kter's good points.  I can't recommend anything specifically because I didn't play with any of those for more than five minutes.  I use XMPP for talking about technical/work or private topics (where it's way more convenient than p2p), I don't talk to Snowden.
[09:08:56] <Licaon_Kter> Old guide is useless Сейд
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[09:09:20] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: right, they used jabber+otr
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[11:51:16] <jeybe> I wonder how long does ejabberd store undelivered messages (original and carbons) and can this time be changed? And are the messages deleted directly after delivery?
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[12:11:21] <Holger> In MAM, forever (until you delete them), same for offline storage.
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[12:12:30] <Holger> Then there's stream management which queues live messages until they're acknowledged, up to a configurable number of seconds.
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[12:12:40] <jeybe> And if MAM is disabled?
[12:13:16] <jeybe> Which XEP is offline storage?
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[12:28:13] <Holger> There's some "best practices" XEP (was it 0178?) but it doesn't really require any specs because it's transparent to clients.
[12:29:06] <Holger> They connect, receive messages, and don't care whether their live or from some offline spool.
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[12:29:39] <Holger> They connect, receive messages, and don't care whether those are live messages or sent from some offline spool.
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[17:21:56] <Сейд> !info lime2.su
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[18:32:43] <Сейд> !info lime2.su
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[18:38:13] <Сейд> !info a3.pm
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[18:43:17] <Сейд> I just came in from Pidgin. I waited a long time for the conference to open. And now I see only four people here, I don't even see myself in the list of participants.
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[18:47:06] <Сейд> I write messages here, but they just disappear. I don't see them.
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[19:00:18] <Сейд> !info lime2.su
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[19:12:18] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд: don't uso Pidgin please
Dino, Gajim, Conversations, etc. only developed clients pls
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[19:25:50] <Holger> People complaining about outdated docs everywhere.
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[19:25:58] <Holger> Since when does everyone read docs?!
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[19:32:50] <Сейд> Every 5 minutes, Pidgin loses and resets communication with conferences on the same server.
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[19:42:31] <Licaon_Kter> Сейд: right, uninstall it already
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[19:58:35] <Сейд> I'm reading. If you could translate it into Russian…
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[20:21:17] <Licaon_Kter> What?
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