Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, August 20, 2021< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[03:43:13] <nc1236> I know I've probably said this here once before, but is there a comprehensive guide on how to migrate ejabberd from mnesia to postgres?  I'm using the ubuntu repository (20.01)
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[03:51:06] <nc1236> Do you basically create the schema with the sql script and then tell ejabberd to connect to it?
[03:51:29] <nc1236> Is there a way to migrate my database from mnesia to postgres in this scenario?  Or will I need to start with a fresh database
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[03:55:46] <nc1236> Ah, I see, there's an ODBC export function I can use: https://www.ejabberd.im/mod_ctlextra/index.html
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[04:16:10] <nc1236> When I run ejabberdctl export2sql my.xmpp.domain dump.sql, I get the following error:
Failed RPC connection to the node ejabberd@localhost: timeout
Any idea what might be causing this?
[04:17:57] <nc1236> It does stuff for a while and even populates a dump.sql file, but it's not completing successfully is it?
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[06:42:02] <nc1236> Finally got it after digging through the forums and other semi-related tutorials
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[07:40:19] <Holger> `--no-timeout` (IMO we should revert to making that the default).
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[08:51:56] <rozzin> Is there some way to have ejabberd authenticate against Google?
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[08:57:45] <nuron> 🤯
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[09:12:07] <Holger> I think they're just doing OAuth?  Either way it would also require client-side support.
[09:12:12] <Holger> rozzin, so the short answer is 'no'.
[09:12:58] <rozzin> Yeah, that was basically my impression....
[09:13:43] <rozzin> Though for different reasons, I guess--
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[09:15:19] <rozzin> I looked through some docs about OAuth in ejabberd, and it all looked very oriented toward ejabberd as an authentication _provider_ with basically nothing that I could see about ejabberd as a _consumer_.
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[09:17:20] <Licaon_Kter> rozzin: jwt? https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-19-08/
[09:17:38] <Licaon_Kter> rozzin: or
https://blog.agayon.be/xmpp_auth_django.html
&
https://blog.agayon.be/xmpp_auth_django_demo.html
[09:17:41] <Holger> rozzin, yes, the built-in support is designed that way.
[09:17:44] <rozzin> Reminded me of when OpenID was still supposed to be the next big thing..., I had dozens of different OpenID providers and zero consumers. 😞️
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[09:18:05] <Holger> rozzin, you're controlling the client and would be interested in adding support?
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[09:25:55] <rozzin> Holger: I wish. More like..., I'm looking for basically any way at all of using an existing client in a way that allows my GSuite users to log in without having to explicitly create a new + disjoint account for every user. Any possible way for users to log in using their GSuite credentials is goal #2, but I guess goal #1 is just setting up a `local Network Effect' i.e getting past the "OK so now I have an account on this but I can't actually use it to talk to communicate with any of my teammates until someone else repeatedly goes through an extra account-creation process that is just too much hassle for the group as a whole to bear" sort of issue.
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[09:32:08] <rozzin> Somehow just passing people's GSuite username/password through the client to some extauth process that could call out to a Google OAuth or Google Plus or whatever service just to get the `yes that account exists and is part of this domain and the user can log in with that password' might actually suffice.
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[09:38:45] <rozzin> Though IIRC Google really went out of their way a few years ago to try to make any sort of login not involving a live web browser impossible, though; I don't really understand their login system well enough to understand how that would even work, or if it actually did. I remember running into it in the context of <https://github.com/tdryer/hangups> a few years ago....
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[09:41:54] <rozzin> Huh: looks like Hangups is still active, despite Google supposedly killing off Hangouts last year.
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[09:43:15] <rozzin> Maybe I could dig into Hangups again, pull out the authentication code, and turn it into an extauth daemon....
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[09:54:56] <ij> … or you set up your own user/auth backend like LDAP and use that one to hook up all your other services instead of using Google?
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[09:56:34] <ij> Ejabberd plays nicely with ldap, at least for me using Univention UCS, which gived me also the option to use OpenID, SAML and Kerberos SSO
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[10:01:47] <Holger> rozzin: Handing over Google credentials to ejabberd would be considered evil.
[10:01:58] <Holger> (That's precisely what OAuth wants to avoid.)
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[10:02:48] <Holger> rozzin: If you fully control clients and servers, I could think of other solutions to avoid asking users for credentials.  (And if you don't control them, you can't integrate with OAuth anyway.)
[10:03:00] <rozzin> Holger: yeah, I get that, _in the general case_. I said basically the same thing on https://github.com/tdryer/hangups/issues/260
[10:03:47] <Holger> kk
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[10:05:09] <rozzin> Holger: It's _my GSuite domain_ though, so I might be able to hold my nose and swallow it _in this specific case_....
[10:05:18] <Holger> I see.
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[10:05:49] <Holger> And yes it's annoying how modern auth solutions are always web-centric.  Not just with Google.
[10:06:42] <rozzin> Other thoughts, backing up and looking at it from totally different angles...: there _is_ an `defer to external website' option for _registering_ XMPP  users, right? Maybe I could pun that....
[10:07:05] <Holger> They left XMPP alive for years after the EOL date as well BTW.  (c2s actually still works today.)
[10:07:21] <Holger> rozzin: Yeah.
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[10:07:55] <rozzin> Or I could make an extauth process that e-mails the user a URL where they can log in with their GSuite account..., and have _that_ service then send a token back to ejabberd.... 😣️
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[10:12:01] <rozzin> Holger: yeah, but AFAICT Google's XMPP service is basically half the reason why anyone thinks `XMPP isn't a modern messaging system' or whatever other variant of `XMPP sucks' (the other half being Pidgin...).
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[10:14:33] <rozzin> It's almost like they leave it running like that _just as a demonstration of `look how much XMPP sucks, see how much better our proprietary chat experience is than this junk'_.
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[10:15:07] <Holger> Hehe.
[10:15:14] <Holger> My guess would be some paying customers.
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[10:16:47] <rozzin> Yeah, I don't know--maybe? "No Carbons" seems like a tough sell. But I guess if one's basis of comparison is IRC or something....
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[10:18:39] <rozzin> And I know there are still work environments that are somehow still "One person, one device. Desktop. Sit in the chair. All day. Work ends when you leave the chair."
[10:19:23] <Holger> To be fair for private chat, about 90% is "one person, one smartphone", that's it.
[10:19:47] <Holger> Which is why WhatsApp & friends get away just fine without proper multi-device support.
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[10:20:10] <rozzin> Yeah, that's a good assessment.
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[10:29:04] <rozzin> Though, I guess here's also some illusionry going on there, right? IIRC there are desktop companion programs for a lot of those things, and people don't even notice that the "desktop version of the app" actually doesn't work when the phone is more than 10 meters away from the desktop....
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[10:29:32] <Holger> That's what I meant with non-proper multi-device support.
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[10:29:51] <Holger> There's WhatsApp web but it doesn't work in the case where your phone is out of battery or whatever.
[10:30:07] <rozzin> I guess because if the phone is >10 meters away from _the person_ then they go into a panicked "OMG my only priority right now is to FIND MY PHONE" mode.
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[10:30:17] <Holger> :-)
[10:30:46] <Holger> (I think WhatsApp specifically is adding better multi-device right now?  But the point is, users didn't burn them in fire for the missing support during the past decade.)
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[10:32:54] <rozzin> So..., this is my `Born-Again SMS to XMPP Conversion' story: https://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/journal/availability/cutting-the-cord-on-sms
It starts out like this:
> someone said she `had no way to get a message to me' when I went to work in Boston without my mobile phone. In 2017.
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[10:34:31] <Holger> But but but1
[10:34:33] <Holger> But but but!
[10:34:36] <Holger> https://www.messagesfordesktop.com
[10:34:53] <Holger> :-)
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[10:35:20] <Holger> Nice story.
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[10:45:57] <rozzin> My wife basically "couldn't get hold of me all day" because I left my mobile phone at home, and then when I got home she was screaming  "OMG WTF HOW COULD YOU NOT ANSWER YOUR PHONE ALL DAY!!?!111one". And I said, "Um..., I left it at home. Didn't even realize until I reached for it to call you about something during lunch."
"OMG WTF HOW COULD YOU *LEAVE YOUR PHONE AT HOME*?!@!!? I HAVE NO WAY TO REACH YOU IF YOU DO THAT!"
"Well, when I realized I couldn't call you, I sent you an IM. And an e-mail, because you were offline on IM. And you never responded to either. If you really needed to get hold of me..., why didn't you even try to do the same? I know you've got e-mail and IM set up on your laptop. If you don't want to use your laptop, or you're out of the house or something..., you've had full Internet access on your phone for 10 years now..., and you know there are apps for this stuff for your phone...? Let's get you set up for at least proper IM on your phone right now, OK?"
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[10:48:26] <rozzin> And Conversations was a big hit. Mostly because for some reason "record voice" in Conversations is a lot more fun than making a phone call and leaving a voicemail.
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[10:50:52] <rozzin> But I bet that "OMG `leave my phone at home' what are you a maniac" gut reaction is basically `standard' at this point.
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[10:51:08] <rozzin> Like...: https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/17/17465182/tamagotchi-mini-digital-tech-addiction
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[10:52:27] <rozzin> There's probably a lesson in here somewhere that we could learn WRT how to more effectively drive XMPP adoption. Not entirely sure what it is though, TBH.
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[14:09:58] <nc1236> > `--no-timeout` (IMO we should revert to making that the default).
It started working once I created a database in postgres and specified the credentials in my ejabberd.yml file.
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[14:44:25] <Licaon_Kter> rozzin: cool story bro' :)
[14:45:12] <rozzin> Licaon_Kter: 😜️
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[14:48:49] <rozzin> Licaon_Kter: it was relevant in the context at the time 😜️
Sorry if it was longwinded and muddled with the actual nugget of relevance lost in the midldle. ☺
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[14:56:10] <Licaon_Kter> rozzin: wait, no, I wasn't ironic actually :))
I know that phrase is though :))
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[20:35:25] JonNJ leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[23:26:12] bowlofeggs leaves the room
[23:26:24] bowlofeggs joins the room
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[23:27:15] Anton Luka Šijanec joins the room
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[23:30:44] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[23:30:44] Anton Luka Šijanec leaves the room
[23:33:56] rozzin leaves the room: Machine is going to sleep
[23:33:57] Licaon_Kter leaves the room
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[23:39:46] schäfchen726 leaves the room
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[23:49:25] deepest leaves the room
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[23:55:29] ru_maniac leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[23:55:30] ru_maniac joins the room
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