Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Saturday, September 11, 2021< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[00:02:05] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[00:02:06] marc0s joins the room
[00:04:34] Alacer joins the room
[00:06:47] schmillin joins the room
[00:09:07] targ leaves the room
[00:14:17] schmillin leaves the room
[00:19:14] malthe leaves the room
[00:19:35] daniel joins the room
[00:21:09] jerry joins the room
[00:23:00] aerick joins the room
[00:26:31] pprrks leaves the room
[00:27:10] jerry leaves the room
[00:35:10] jerry joins the room
[00:41:14] jerry leaves the room
[00:45:06] kryptos joins the room
[00:45:10] sunblade leaves the room
[00:46:37] schäfchen726 leaves the room
[00:47:51] jerry joins the room
[00:47:55] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[00:47:59] allbombson joins the room
[00:56:55] schmillin joins the room
[01:16:07] carlo leaves the room
[01:21:32] vanitasvitae leaves the room
[01:24:07] Kris leaves the room
[01:25:59] aerick leaves the room
[01:35:40] ij joins the room
[01:40:33] ij joins the room
[01:41:37] ij leaves the room
[01:46:30] ij leaves the room
[01:50:01] kryptos leaves the room
[01:55:06] schmillin leaves the room
[01:55:11] schmillin joins the room
[01:57:47] rozzin leaves the room
[01:58:37] sunblade leaves the room
[02:02:31] kinetik leaves the room
[02:05:42] norkki leaves the room
[02:06:17] norkki joins the room
[02:07:16] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Host is unreachable
[02:09:50] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[02:13:45] schmillin leaves the room
[02:17:31] allbombson joins the room
[02:18:02] carlo joins the room
[02:19:21] LNJ leaves the room
[02:24:54] raver leaves the room
[02:24:55] isotelo leaves the room
[02:35:36] isotelo joins the room
[02:38:57] Bung leaves the room
[02:47:21] Thomas Lewis joins the room
[02:49:05] riau.pro leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[02:49:07] riau.pro joins the room
[02:50:49] danielepiccoli leaves the room
[02:51:30] Chris joins the room
[02:55:33] danielepiccoli joins the room
[03:00:31] SouL joins the room
[03:01:05] pprrks joins the room
[03:02:04] doctor leaves the room
[03:02:07] doctor joins the room
[03:02:47] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[03:02:51] sonny joins the room
[03:03:56] pitchum joins the room
[03:05:11] lorddavidiii joins the room
[03:06:17] rozzin joins the room
[03:06:54] stp leaves the room
[03:07:12] JuniorJPDJ leaves the room
[03:07:17] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[03:07:21] Thomas Lewis joins the room
[03:11:17] pitchum leaves the room
[03:11:23] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[03:11:28] allbombson joins the room
[03:13:41] Bung joins the room
[03:18:45] pod joins the room
[03:20:15] suren joins the room
[03:21:26] marzzzello joins the room
[03:24:34] schmillin leaves the room
[03:25:37] schmillin joins the room
[03:26:27] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[03:26:30] sonny joins the room
[03:31:33] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[03:36:38] Licaon_Kter joins the room
[03:41:51] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[03:41:54] allbombson joins the room
[03:42:24] doctor leaves the room
[03:42:27] doctor joins the room
[03:48:28] sumpfralle leaves the room
[03:48:28] sumpfralle_ leaves the room
[03:50:08] pod leaves the room
[03:50:17] <rom1dep> Licaon_Kter: apparently it already had my 👍
🙂
[03:50:47] <Licaon_Kter> :)
[03:51:01] pod joins the room
[03:52:17] nc1236 joins the room
[03:55:18] sander leaves the room
[03:55:19] conv leaves the room
[03:55:50] bowlofeggs joins the room
[03:56:18] daniel leaves the room
[03:56:19] bkero leaves the room
[03:57:03] pod joins the room
[03:58:04] bowlofeggs leaves the room
[03:58:13] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[03:59:32] sonny joins the room
[04:00:53] Mike leaves the room
[04:00:53] Mike joins the room
[04:03:34] mimi89999 leaves the room: Disconnected: Received SIGTERM
[04:03:34] mimi89999 leaves the room
[04:04:01] mimi89999 joins the room
[04:04:08] mimi89999 joins the room
[04:04:31] stp leaves the room
[04:09:59] bkero joins the room
[04:13:57] norkki leaves the room
[04:14:08] Thomas Lewis joins the room
[04:17:28] conv joins the room
[04:18:12] Bung leaves the room
[04:22:03] daniel joins the room
[04:22:06] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[04:22:07] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[04:25:02] sander joins the room
[04:25:48] danielepiccoli leaves the room
[04:27:13] Bung joins the room
[04:27:27] nuron leaves the room
[04:28:06] nuron joins the room
[04:30:36] bowlofeggs joins the room
[04:31:23] jannic leaves the room
[04:31:25] bowlofeggs leaves the room
[04:35:19] danielepiccoli joins the room
[04:35:47] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[04:37:30] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[04:37:30] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[04:39:34] Marc joins the room
[04:42:08] twl leaves the room
[04:42:47] pprrks leaves the room
[04:44:54] jannic joins the room
[04:48:38] Marc leaves the room
[04:55:31] nc1236 leaves the room
[04:58:32] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[04:58:34] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[04:59:31] sunblade joins the room
[05:01:49] w35_pixel5 leaves the room
[05:02:29] w35_pixel5 joins the room
[05:07:49] sunblade leaves the room
[05:12:31] henrik leaves the room
[05:12:56] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[05:12:59] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[05:14:31] pprrks joins the room
[05:16:38] isotelo leaves the room
[05:16:39] isotelo joins the room
[05:17:03] sunblade joins the room
[05:18:44] km joins the room
[05:19:00] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[05:20:04] robert_mobil joins the room
[05:21:33] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[05:23:42] Marc joins the room
[05:31:40] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[05:31:43] allbombson joins the room
[05:34:04] raver joins the room
[05:36:50] km leaves the room
[05:40:36] Thomas Lewis joins the room
[05:40:59] sunblade joins the room
[05:43:28] pprrks leaves the room
[05:43:31] Dom leaves the room
[05:44:07] Dom joins the room
[05:44:27] neox joins the room
[05:58:10] isotelo leaves the room
[05:58:10] isotelo joins the room
[05:58:58] 86ul joins the room
[06:00:19] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[06:02:13] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[06:02:19] allbombson joins the room
[06:06:00] jerry leaves the room
[06:10:28] schäfchen726 joins the room
[06:10:47] ff joins the room
[06:14:18] sunblade leaves the room
[06:15:02] [Alien] joins the room
[06:15:36] Marc joins the room
[06:15:46] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[06:16:02] allbombson joins the room
[06:18:07] dos leaves the room
[06:21:36] [Alien] leaves the room
[06:23:13] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[06:23:21] allbombson joins the room
[06:31:45] writer77 joins the room
[06:32:50] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[06:41:55] Thomas Lewis joins the room
[06:42:03] sander leaves the room
[06:45:06] ma1uta leaves the room
[06:46:51] nuron leaves the room
[06:47:09] nuron joins the room
[06:47:09] Lemm1ng joins the room
[06:47:11] ma1uta joins the room
[06:47:14] deepest leaves the room
[06:51:08] carlos leaves the room
[06:58:43] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[06:58:48] allbombson joins the room
[07:00:15] jerry joins the room
[07:01:33] LNJ joins the room
[07:02:09] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[07:03:20] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[07:04:07] daniel leaves the room
[07:06:04] deepest joins the room
[07:06:16] jerry leaves the room
[07:06:20] sander joins the room
[07:07:52] Alacer leaves the room
[07:09:10] acidsys joins the room
[07:14:31] Thomas Lewis joins the room
[07:17:35] jerry joins the room
[07:24:36] nuron leaves the room
[07:27:35] nuron joins the room
[07:34:21] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[07:34:34] acidsys leaves the room
[07:34:47] debacle joins the room
[07:34:55] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[07:35:10] Thomas Lewis leaves the room
[07:35:32] danielepiccoli joins the room
[07:40:40] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[07:40:56] sonny joins the room
[07:40:58] danielepiccoli leaves the room
[07:41:49] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[07:41:53] allbombson joins the room
[07:44:02] daniel joins the room
[07:44:05] ru_maniac joins the room
[07:44:07] ru_maniac leaves the room
[07:44:07] ru_maniac joins the room
[07:44:23] danielepiccoli joins the room
[07:46:18] ru_maniac leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[07:46:19] ru_maniac joins the room
[07:46:52] ru_maniac leaves the room
[07:46:53] ru_maniac joins the room
[07:47:09] pprrks joins the room
[07:47:42] ru_maniac leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[07:47:43] ru_maniac joins the room
[07:50:48] isotelo leaves the room
[07:51:47] isotelo joins the room
[07:53:00] Chris leaves the room
[07:59:58] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[08:00:06] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[08:00:53] Chris joins the room
[08:02:33] km joins the room
[08:02:36] pitchum joins the room
[08:04:45] sunblade leaves the room
[08:06:55] jerry leaves the room
[08:07:00] km leaves the room
[08:07:21] nand joins the room
[08:07:50] Camel leaves the room
[08:09:34] daniel leaves the room
[08:10:19] norkki joins the room
[08:12:00] Jeroen joins the room
[08:12:57] Jeroen leaves the room
[08:16:01] riau.pro leaves the room
[08:20:23] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[08:20:26] daniel joins the room
[08:20:41] Akasch joins the room
[08:22:58] basheer leaves the room
[08:27:52] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[08:27:55] allbombson joins the room
[08:28:11] mightyBroccoli joins the room
[08:30:21] pitchum joins the room
[08:33:28] robert_mobil leaves the room
[08:34:57] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[08:38:40] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[08:38:40] marc0s joins the room
[08:40:28] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[08:40:28] allbombson joins the room
[08:41:51] JuniorJPDJ joins the room
[08:42:14] Marc leaves the room
[08:44:01] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[08:44:02] marc0s joins the room
[08:45:29] Dom leaves the room
[08:46:37] Dom joins the room
[08:46:55] Jeroen joins the room
[08:47:23] Jeroen leaves the room
[08:47:36] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[08:48:04] JuniorJPDJ leaves the room
[08:48:05] JuniorJPDJ joins the room
[08:48:57] nuron leaves the room
[08:50:52] Alacer joins the room
[08:51:13] Camel joins the room
[08:52:00] Alacer leaves the room
[08:52:01] nuron joins the room
[08:52:14] Alacer joins the room
[08:53:23] Jeroen joins the room
[08:53:52] Jeroen leaves the room
[08:54:05] JuniorJPDJ leaves the room
[08:54:06] JuniorJPDJ joins the room
[08:55:06] Marc joins the room
[08:55:31] riau.pro joins the room
[08:55:57] Alacer leaves the room: offline
[08:56:32] daniel leaves the room
[08:57:19] pprrks leaves the room
[08:57:29] JuniorJPDJ leaves the room
[08:57:30] JuniorJPDJ joins the room
[08:59:06] Marc leaves the room
[09:00:59] stp joins the room
[09:04:06] JuniorJPDJ leaves the room
[09:04:55] nosnilmot joins the room
[09:06:01] malthe joins the room
[09:08:04] lorddavidiii leaves the room
[09:10:03] egnun leaves the room
[09:10:26] basheer joins the room
[09:10:41] lorddavidiii joins the room
[09:10:41] egnun joins the room
[09:11:02] Jeroen joins the room
[09:11:42] Jeroen leaves the room
[09:12:22] Jeroen joins the room
[09:12:48] Jeroen leaves the room
[09:13:27] rozzin joins the room
[09:16:31] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[09:17:49] spla joins the room
[09:19:14] spla leaves the room
[09:19:15] spla joins the room
[09:19:32] mimi89999 leaves the room
[09:19:42] mimi89999 joins the room
[09:20:27] malthe leaves the room
[09:21:50] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[09:21:50] frankest leaves the room
[09:26:11] gooya joins the room
[09:27:20] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:27:21] allbombson joins the room
[09:27:48] targ joins the room
[09:29:07] frankest joins the room
[09:30:23] daniel joins the room
[09:31:30] karme joins the room
[09:32:31] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:32:31] marc0s joins the room
[09:33:28] Tim leaves the room
[09:33:49] carlos joins the room
[09:34:49] inkey joins the room
[09:34:51] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:34:52] marc0s joins the room
[09:36:57] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:37:00] sonny joins the room
[09:37:30] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[09:37:44] sonny joins the room
[09:39:49] ThUnD3r|Gr33n leaves the room
[09:40:28] ThUnD3r|Gr33n joins the room
[09:42:08] Lemm1ng joins the room
[09:46:15] Kris joins the room
[09:46:49] writer77 leaves the room
[09:47:15] writer77 joins the room
[09:49:33] Lemm1ng joins the room
[09:51:50] Tim joins the room
[09:52:00] Akasch leaves the room
[09:53:10] pprrks joins the room
[09:53:41] debacle leaves the room
[09:54:35] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:54:35] marc0s joins the room
[09:55:56] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:55:57] marc0s joins the room
[09:58:44] Lemm1ng leaves the room
[10:00:48] yann-kaelig joins the room
[10:02:19] carlos leaves the room
[10:04:15] Marc leaves the room
[10:07:41] Lemm1ng leaves the room
[10:08:45] rom1dep joins the room
[10:10:40] kryptos joins the room
[10:11:47] robert_mobil joins the room
[10:13:10] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[10:13:11] allbombson joins the room
[10:13:20] kinky_nekoboi joins the room
[10:14:05] pprrks leaves the room
[10:14:12] Mike leaves the room
[10:14:52] Mike joins the room
[10:17:29] Marc joins the room
[10:18:33] ff joins the room
[10:20:34] Marc leaves the room
[10:23:35] Anton Luka Šijanec leaves the room
[10:24:59] rozzin leaves the room
[10:25:00] rozzin joins the room
[10:28:34] dwd leaves the room
[10:30:53] rozzin leaves the room: Machine is going to sleep
[10:34:02] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[10:34:43] LNJ leaves the room
[10:34:45] LNJ joins the room
[10:35:32] danielepiccoli leaves the room
[10:36:06] danielepiccoli joins the room
[10:39:42] sander leaves the room
[10:39:42] isotelo leaves the room
[10:40:01] sander joins the room
[10:40:59] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[10:41:19] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[10:41:38] isotelo joins the room
[10:42:45] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[10:42:45] marc0s joins the room
[10:43:10] daniel leaves the room
[10:45:45] daniel joins the room
[10:49:12] isotelo leaves the room
[10:49:13] erik leaves the room
[10:49:42] mimi89999 leaves the room
[10:49:49] mimi89999 joins the room
[10:51:08] daniel leaves the room
[10:51:42] isotelo joins the room
[10:52:02] Lemm1ng joins the room
[10:52:10] kinky_nekoboi leaves the room
[10:52:33] VC leaves the room
[10:52:35] VC joins the room
[10:53:39] daniel joins the room
[10:54:34] Camel leaves the room
[10:56:15] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[10:56:24] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[10:58:05] SouL leaves the room
[10:58:10] kryptos leaves the room
[11:00:58] erik joins the room
[11:01:25] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:01:26] allbombson joins the room
[11:01:26] ij joins the room
[11:02:49] Marc joins the room
[11:04:00] SouL joins the room
[11:05:46] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[11:05:52] egnun leaves the room
[11:05:52] egnun leaves the room
[11:06:52] ij leaves the room
[11:07:15] egnun joins the room
[11:07:15] egnun leaves the room
[11:08:00] Jeroen joins the room
[11:08:24] Jeroen leaves the room
[11:08:39] jadmanthrat leaves the room
[11:08:39] basti leaves the room
[11:08:39] spla leaves the room
[11:08:40] ff leaves the room
[11:08:46] lorddavidiii leaves the room
[11:09:27] malloc joins the room
[11:10:14] egnun joins the room
[11:10:19] malthe joins the room
[11:11:13] lorddavidiii joins the room
[11:13:02] ru_maniac leaves the room
[11:13:02] ru_maniac joins the room
[11:13:06] ru_maniac leaves the room
[11:13:06] ru_maniac joins the room
[11:13:15] ru_maniac leaves the room
[11:13:15] ru_maniac joins the room
[11:13:24] Akasch joins the room
[11:14:45] Tshering Lhamo leaves the room
[11:15:42] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:15:46] sonny joins the room
[11:15:52] Tshering Lhamo joins the room
[11:16:10] rom1dep leaves the room
[11:17:00] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:17:05] sonny joins the room
[11:18:25] Frank leaves the room
[11:20:45] Anton Luka Šijanec joins the room
[11:22:09] deepest leaves the room
[11:22:42] vanitasvitae joins the room
[11:22:42] Tim leaves the room
[11:22:42] Tim leaves the room
[11:22:53] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[11:23:56] JuniorJPDJ joins the room
[11:24:02] doctor leaves the room
[11:24:45] malthe leaves the room
[11:25:38] deepest joins the room
[11:26:38] Camel joins the room
[11:26:46] Frank joins the room
[11:29:17] rom1dep leaves the room
[11:29:45] ff joins the room
[11:31:18] isotelo leaves the room
[11:31:41] sumpfralle_ joins the room
[11:31:49] _frank_ leaves the room
[11:31:49] sumpfralle joins the room
[11:32:14] _frank_ joins the room
[11:32:21] hlad joins the room
[11:34:30] carlos joins the room
[11:35:47] newsfeed joins the room
[11:38:19] debacle joins the room
[11:39:09] km joins the room
[11:39:32] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:39:33] marc0s joins the room
[11:40:28] newsfeed is now known as Newsfeed
[11:40:35] nand leaves the room
[11:41:48] isotelo joins the room
[11:43:24] dwd joins the room
[11:43:34] [Alien] joins the room
[11:43:42] Tshering Lhamo leaves the room
[11:45:20] stp joins the room
[11:45:52] Tshering Lhamo joins the room
[11:46:04] ru_maniac leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:46:05] ru_maniac joins the room
[11:47:13] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[11:50:31] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[11:51:35] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:51:38] marc0s joins the room
[11:51:58] Marc joins the room
[11:52:42] Newsfeed leaves the room
[11:52:50] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:52:50] allbombson joins the room
[11:52:59] Frank leaves the room
[11:53:55] sonny leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[11:53:58] sonny joins the room
[11:56:43] km leaves the room
[11:57:07] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[11:57:09] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[12:01:24] neox joins the room
[12:04:09] mimi89999 leaves the room
[12:06:45] stp leaves the room
[12:07:31] Milles leaves the room
[12:07:42] Milles joins the room
[12:09:50] stp joins the room
[12:12:20] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[12:12:21] salhikhaled1 joins the room
[12:12:54] [Alien] joins the room
[12:13:02] neox leaves the room
[12:13:10] robert_mobil leaves the room
[12:14:33] rom1dep joins the room
[12:20:33] Marc leaves the room
[12:20:33] Lemm1ng leaves the room
[12:21:04] rom1dep joins the room
[12:21:35] Marc leaves the room
[12:21:53] [Alien] leaves the room
[12:24:35] carlo leaves the room
[12:24:51] mimi89999 joins the room
[12:25:18] Frank joins the room
[12:25:25] basti joins the room
[12:25:33] marzzzello leaves the room
[12:26:33] ff leaves the room
[12:27:51] ru_maniac leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[12:27:51] ru_maniac joins the room
[12:28:29] salhikhaled1 leaves the room
[12:28:35] allbombson leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[12:28:35] mimi89999 leaves the room
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[14:10:10] <rom1dep> does anyone know what happened to https://github.com/WhatsApp/erlt and facebook's attempt at a statically typed language on top of BEAM?
[14:12:19] <rom1dep> https://gleam.run/ looks tolerable
[14:12:52] <Holger> Was going to mentin the latter.  Played a bit with that one (added a bit glue to create ejabberd modules IIRC).
[14:13:09] <Holger> Wasn't aware of the other two.
[14:13:24] <Holger> Initial commit 4 months ago, now archived?
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[14:14:50] <rom1dep> yep, I remember a recentish HN discussion/slides about WA/Facebook putting engineering efforts in this direction, and erlt is what my googling brought up, I'm as surpsised as you
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[14:16:17] <rom1dep> gleam looks like poor man's Scala, but then I wonder how hard it would be to write a scala compiler backend that target BEAM
[14:16:24] <Holger> Would be cool if they simply spent some $$$ on gleam.  Looks fine to me conceptionally, but missing lots of infrastructure.
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[14:16:54] <Holger> Not that much of a Scala fan ...
[14:16:56] <rom1dep> (current scala targets the JVM, LLVM/native and JS)
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[14:17:21] <Holger> BBL
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[14:18:14] <rom1dep> you should give scala 3 a try, depending what your grief with it is, they removed a lot of warts and added a brace-less syntax that you may or may not like
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[15:33:44] <Holger> rom1dep, my main grief was just the usual criticism that the expressiveness/complexity ratio doesn't feel good.  I don't quite buy the idea that you need a complex language to implement complex software.  Scala has redundant functionality, so you end up with less ideomatic code than elsewhere.  OOP guy will solve a given problem differently than the FP guy, and so on.  Type system felt too complex as well.
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[15:35:36] <Holger> I'm sure part of the problem was that I just had a quick look, never did anything serious with Scala.  But I want to be conviced when having a quick look, not months later 🙂
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[15:36:19] <Holger> But yes Scala 3 marketing sounds like they're going in good directions.
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[15:44:24] <Thomas Lewis> Lisp proves you don't need a complex language for complex software.
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[15:45:01] <Holger> 🙂
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[15:46:28] <Holger> TBH my main grief with LISP would be that it's under-complex 😂  But yes I have more sympathies with err'ing on that side.
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[15:51:08] <rom1dep> I see. I wouldn't say that the language is complex, though, it has a limited syntax that's very consistent and easy to learn, but yeah, a powerful type system (opening the doors to encoding problems at multiple levels of abstraction). Lot of the bad rep comes from the early days' people abusing implicit conversions and cryptic operators to make library-spexific DSLs. There is also a vocal sub-communitee with a strong academic mindset that looks down on simple solutions to simple problems that you can easily ignore. The status quo is they the abstraction serves successfully library and complex systems developers while everyone else can use it as a "better Python" and ramp up the complexity/abstraction where needed
[15:51:51] <rom1dep> > Lisp proves you don't need a complex language for complex software.
I really don't know what LISPs prove, tbh.. 😄
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[15:56:32] <Holger> rom1dep, yeah, I'm not trying to proove my point or something.  I'm not into language flamewars at all, in the end they all work for me.  It's mostly just that Scala is one of the many languages that didn't manage to conquer my heart while looking into it 🙂
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[15:59:41] <Holger> In the end, the main feature that does make a language work a bit better than others for me is static/strong typing (and inference making that nicer to use).  In that sense, Scala is one of the good ones, actually better than Erlang 🙂
[16:02:37] <rom1dep> Yep, that's fine. I like to stick around Scala because I learn a lot from what the community manages to do with it, and from wrapping my head around the type theory. I can't fool myself into believing that it's for everything and everyone, or that it would be the next mainstream thing
[16:02:59] <rom1dep> Tooling, too
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[16:04:02] <rom1dep> Not saying erlang's bad but all the other beam languages are severely lacking
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[16:09:16] <raver> Kotlin is nice🤪
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[16:13:14] <Holger> rom1dep, I'm a big fan of a powerful type system, FWIW, so that's not my complaint.  I'm into Haskell to some degree, for example.  I don't remember how Scala's type system annoyed me, but it did in some ways.
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[16:14:00] <rom1dep> Holger: implicits probably..
[16:14:01] <Holger> Some things seemed to complex to express, maybe due to JVM restrictions.  Completely forgot 😕
[16:14:43] <Holger> Some things seemed too complex to express, maybe due to JVM restrictions.  Completely forgot 😕
[16:14:52] <Holger> Whatever.
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[16:15:46] <rom1dep> raver: I don't hate kotlin, I'm glad I learned Scala before so I can appreciate how it uses more syntax and ad-hoc constructs to deliver less, but also a more "hands on" experience that's just good enough for many
[16:15:53] <Holger> rom1dep, not sure Elixir is "severly lacking".  (Just not convinced it buys you that much over Erlang.)
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[16:16:42] <rom1dep> I forgot to mention that I meant statically typed langages
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[16:17:17] <raver> rom1dep: I started with C Java and PHP, and later focused on Java
[16:17:35] <Holger> Right.  Not aware of any besides Gleam 🙂  I just had a look, seems he did add a lot since I looked into it.  But still mostly a toy project, of course.
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[16:17:54] <raver> But when I had the pleasure to write an entirely application with kotlin coding starts to make fun again😀
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[16:18:52] <raver> Want to learn rust someday
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[16:19:58] <Holger> I'd still insist, in the end they're all the same 😂️  _Way_ more important to have (or create) a clean code base to work on.  Then it's fun, no matter the language.  Otherwise it's hell, no matter the language.
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[16:20:34] <rom1dep> raver: rust with good IDE support and hints to navigate the borrow checkers, yup 👍
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[16:21:37] <raver> > I'd still insist, in the end they're all the same 😂️  _Way_ more important to have (or create) a clean code base to work on.  Then it's fun, no matter the language.  Otherwise it's hell, no matter the language.
Indeed so true, but in some languages it's easier to write messy code
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[16:22:11] <Holger> We use Perl all day at work!
[16:22:21] <Holger> Good co-workers, so most of that code is very nice 🙂
[16:22:31] <Holger> (But yes.)
[16:22:37] <rom1dep> I like about scala that you can basically develop something over the JVM with all the convenience, debugging, hot reloading, ... And then deploy it to native/JS is one wants, not sure rust will ever get there if the current state of lldb is a sign
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[16:23:34] <raver> 🙂 that's important to have good co workers, but even then everybody has his own style, so everytime a developer changes in a project the code gets a bit more messy
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[16:26:36] <Holger> Yes I do prefer 'ideomatic' over 'full-featured' languages for that reason as well.  (I.e. the opposite of Perl.  No idea what went wrong with a language designer if he's proud of "there's more than one way to do it".)
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[16:32:41] <rom1dep> Holger: must resonate with you
https://www.lihaoyi.com/post/StrategicScalaStylePrincipleofLeastPower.html
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[16:34:15] <rom1dep> The author has developed a collection of libraries that make using scala convenient and easy for the mundane stuff
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[16:36:23] <rom1dep> https://github.com/com-lihaoyi/requests-scala
https://github.com/com-lihaoyi/cask https://github.com/com-lihaoyi/mainargs
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