Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Monday, September 13, 2021< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[05:35:55] <Trbl> funnily enough, docker configs and networking are way more complicated than just installing and configuring software packages like ejabberd...
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[06:48:31] <Holger> Yes, and I wonder why admins keep assuming otherwise.  Docker might make sense for bundling ejabberd with other software/configs and deploying your image on a large number of (heterogeneous) systems.  But for a single node, I see no advantage over the Debian package whatsoever.  Just adds a layer which adds complexity.
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[07:01:04] <Holger> > I'd also personally avoid docker, it often gives a false sense of security
Having software vendors bundle dependencies into a Docker container is a security nightmare, of course.
[07:03:22] <Trbl> the issue with the self-hosting boom is just that people don't want to learn the skills required to do self-hosting
[07:03:41] <Licaon_Kter> And that will go how far exactly?
[07:04:03] <Trbl> everyone spens up kubernetes clusters thinking they're fucking google and need to scale
[07:04:10] <Licaon_Kter> When the first issue arises how will you fix it if you didn't have the skills to host it in the first place?
[07:04:15] <Trbl> everyone spins up kubernetes clusters thinking they're fucking google and need to scale
[07:04:46] <Trbl> that's why all the private instances of pretty much everything are volatile af
[07:05:47] <Trbl> i bet you more than half the people who came here for help with their xmpp server no longer have one
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[07:15:10] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: You post on GitHub "it's broken how do I fix it".
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[07:46:38] <Licaon_Kter> And a day later "got it fixed". Close issue.
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[07:48:31] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: you've awaken the elder god for PubSub? Brrr
[07:51:10] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: Hm?
[07:51:19] <Licaon_Kter> Latest commit
[07:51:20] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: You mean Alexey's *MUC*Sub commit?
[07:51:42] <Holger> Similar sound, different thing ;-)
[07:52:16] <Licaon_Kter> Ah dammit
[07:52:40] <Licaon_Kter> Never used that so, meh
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[07:53:05] <Holger> Yeah, non-standard.
[07:53:15] <Holger> A customer of mine uses it ...
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[07:56:12] <Licaon_Kter> With great success?
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[08:13:47] <Holger> Well, point is MUC push notifications on iOS, works.
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[08:14:21] <Holger> But the Tigase hack is slightly nicer IMO.
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[08:21:57] <Licaon_Kter> Interesting
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[09:07:41] <Giovanni> https://xmpp.jix.im/upload/99e944b81a9df91592c53fda34890c47c0498178/dRTFvgsct3S9bgTETnPSVFy4A84mEYdtAmr6DvJZ/immagine.png
[09:07:45] <Giovanni> hi people, I'm back at some tests with RTB but there is something I don't understand:
why after I reach 20k session (all the test accounts are connected) the message out is (correctly, I suppose) increasing but the message in not?
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[09:08:33] <Licaon_Kter> Giovanni: which settings?
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[09:14:44] <Giovanni> Licaon_Kter
https://pastebin.com/kwD5Xx3p
I think this is a basic configuration
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[09:51:47] <Giovanni> Perhaps is related to mod_block_strangers
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[09:57:32] <Giovanni> it was, indeed
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[09:57:56] <Licaon_Kter> Not sure why you'd use that during testing though :)
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[10:01:56] <Giovanni> Licaon_Kter just forgot the mod active. my bad 🙂
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[10:29:34] <strejo> hello, is it possible to set an ejabberd xmpp server on a rpi 4?
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[10:30:58] <prefiks> i think there are people here that do that
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[10:37:22] <Licaon_Kter> strejo: you need at least an RPi1 w/ 256Mb :))
[10:38:16] <strejo> so the rpi4 will be more than enough, great
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[10:39:55] <Licaon_Kter> FYI, a 3+ 1Gb can handle at least 800 concurent users, on SD card w/ postgresql
If you use an SSD on a 4 w/ 2/4/8Gb RAM things will be pretty awesome :)
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[10:45:36] <jasper> Hi, I hope this is a good place to ask this...
I have installed and configured an ejabberd instance on an Ubuntu Server 20.04 system using the .deb binary and got it working, mostly. Now I wanted to setup the STUN/TURN according to the blogpost: https://www.process-one.net/blog/how-to-set-up-ejabberd-video-voice-calling/
However, when I add the entries in the "listen:" section and try to start ejabberd, I get the errors:
>|2021-09-13 10:32:20.499 [error] <0.403.0>@ejabberd_listener:report_socket_error:470 Failed to open socket at <ip>:5349 for ejabberd_stun: can't assign requested address
>|2021-09-13 10:32:20.499 [error] <0.396.0> Supervisor ejabberd_listener had child {5349,{<ip>},tcp} started with ejabberd_listener:start({5349,{<ip>},tcp}, ejabberd_stun, #{accept_interval => 0,auth_realm => undefined,auth_type => user,backlog => 5,certfile => undefined,...}) at undefined exit with reason eaddrnotavail in context start_error
>|2021-09-13 10:32:20.501 [error] <0.370.0> Supervisor ejabberd_sup had child ejabberd_listener started with ejabberd_listener:start_link() at undefined exit with reason {shutdown,{failed_to_start_child,{5349,{<ip>},tcp},eaddrnotavail}} in context start_error
note: I have censored the <ip> in above log
Ejabberd has no problem with any other ports and the port isn't used by any other program that I know of. What could be the hangup?
[10:46:01] <Kris> Rpi4 is already overkill for ejabberd or prosody. Anyone tried on a rpi-zero?
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[10:47:16] <Licaon_Kter> Kris: it's not worse than original 1B, right?
[10:47:22] <Kris> yes
[10:47:31] <Kris> hmm, or maybe a bit
[10:47:46] <Kris> idk actually 😅️
[10:47:48] <Licaon_Kter> So yes, works fine, networking not withstanding, adapters etc
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[10:48:10] <Holger> jasper: First of all, that article unfortunately overcomplicates things a bit.  I'd start with the vanilly example config: https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/21.07/ejabberd.yml.example
[10:49:08] <Licaon_Kter> jasper: instance means real device, VM, docker?
[10:49:25] <jasper> > jasper: instance means real device, VM, docker?
VM
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[10:49:45] <Holger> jasper: I.e., `ip: "::"` (assuming you're on Linux and the server is accessible both via IPv4 and IPv6).  Depending on your server setup, you'll have to also specify the server's public `turn_ipv4_address`.
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[10:50:22] <Kris> so the Zero is actually a bit faster than the original Rpi1. but it is close
[10:51:27] <Kris> ejabberd on a 5 dollar device, not bad 🤩️
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[10:58:14] <jasper> > jasper: I.e., `ip: "::"` (assuming you're on Linux and the server is accessible both via IPv4 and IPv6).  Depending on your server setup, you'll have to also specify the server's public `turn_ipv4_address`.
My VPS Provider does not seem to provide a IPv6 Address, but your suggestion eliminated the error in any case. Thank you!
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[11:00:03] <Holger> jasper: Ok.  Note that IPv4-only setups will fail for some percentage of clients.
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[11:01:24] <Holger> (In practice it fails with some mobile network.  So for a family & friends server you might never run into the problem if your family & friends aren't using an affected provider.)
[11:01:36] <Holger> *some mobile networks.
[11:01:52] <gooya> > gooya: Fedora, with dnf-automatic. It comes confined by SELinux by default. You can also further sandbox it using systems via my config here https://github.com/divestedcg/Brace/blob/master/brace/usr/lib/systemd/system/ejabberd.service.d/99-brace.conf
Thanks for sharing.
[11:02:26] <jasper> Do you think the original Conversations (by iNPUTmice) will work?
[11:03:04] <Holger> jasper: Yes it's not about the client software, it's about the network.
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[11:03:37] <gooya> > I'd also personally avoid docker, it often gives a false sense of security imo
I know it makes it more complex to use docker but as I intend to use more services I thought it would be a little bit better security-wise as the containers are atleast a bit more isolated from eachother than just having packages?
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[11:04:55] <gooya> > I'd also personally avoid docker, it often gives a false sense of security imo
Malvaceae: I know it makes it more complex to use docker but as I intend to use more services I thought it would be a little bit better security-wise as the containers are atleast a bit more isolated from eachother than just having packages?
[11:05:32] <jasper> I'll try it out, if it doesn't work I'll see about another hoster. I didn't know about the restriction of IPv6 a signup :(
[11:06:44] <Holger> jasper: You may well be lucky and not run into it.  If you do there's also a workaround I can suggest which helps in *some* cases.
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[11:09:49] <Holger> gooya: The problem is with using ready-made Docker images downloaded from the Internet.  They bundle dependencies.  Random example: OpenSSL.  If there's an OpenSSL security issue, Debian will update the package, and Debian's ejabberd is fine.  Are you sure that (1) your software vendors track all security issues of all dependencies, and (2) update the Docker images accordingly, and (3) will you notice and update your copy?
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[11:12:29] <Holger> gooya: If not, it's at best a trade-off; Docker increases the risk of exposure to security issues while the isolation helps with keeping the scope down to the affected service.
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[11:13:19] <gooya> > gooya: The problem is with using ready-made Docker images downloaded from the Internet.  They bundle dependencies.  Random example: OpenSSL.  If there's an OpenSSL security issue, Debian will update the package, and Debian's ejabberd is fine.  Are you sure that (1) your software vendors track all security issues of all dependencies, and (2) update the Docker images accordingly, and (3) will you notice and update your copy?
Those are some really good points and I totally agree but what would you recommend to still be able to isolate some services from others?
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[11:18:27] <Holger> I can't make general recommendations because you really need to take the actual services and your concrete environment into account.  At my workplace, we're often fine with Unix' traditional user separation; if a service is executed by the `foo` user, an attacker typically has no way to affect anything executed by the `bar` user.  In cases where we need more isolation, we set up a separate VM.  Containers are in between those two solutions and I'm not advocating against containers as such, I do see use cases both for deployment and isolation.  I just think the typical reasonings for downloading Docker images from the Internet: (1) simplicity and (2) security, are misleading.
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[11:24:25] <gooya> So running services under different unix users is also good enough in terms of isolation?
[11:24:27] <Holger> I think the main reason for the popularity of that model is that supporting a known set of dependency versions is easier/cheaper for software vendors.  I understand the vendor's point of view.  I just don't get how you'd prefer the Docker image from an admin perspective, if you get the exact same software (version) properly packaged by a distro like in the ejabberd case :-)
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[11:26:01] <Holger> gooya: That's the part I can't make general statements about, sorry.  As an admin running some public Internet service, you should make up your own mind on such decisions, IMO.  I.e. understand how different isolation mechanisms differ in order to reason about their applicability for your use case.
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[11:41:07] <gooya> > gooya: That's the part I can't make general statements about, sorry.  As an admin running some public Internet service, you should make up your own mind on such decisions, IMO.  I.e. understand how different isolation mechanisms differ in order to reason about their applicability for your use case.
Oh I see. It's really all a learning curve for me anyways. Most of the things I self-host are for my personal use and aren't even exposed to the internet so a safe way to experiment and gain some knowledge.
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[11:42:20] <gooya> And thank you holger once again for your detailed and substantiated arguments. I really appreciate the time and effort you take for other's questions.
[11:43:04] <gooya> And thank you holger once again for your detailed and substantiated arguments. I really appreciate the time and effort you take for everyone's questions.
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[11:55:04] <gooya> And Holger thank you once again for your detailed and substantiated arguments. I really appreciate the time and effort you take for everyone's questions.
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[11:55:39] <Holger> 👍
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[12:52:42] <Bung> My computer has 1tb space. 850gb empty, will this number decrease if I open a server
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[12:54:10] <Licaon_Kter> Bung: yes, since users will upload files, but they'll be deleted after a while, depends on how you setup iy
[12:54:13] <Licaon_Kter> Bung: yes, since users will upload files, but they'll be deleted after a while, depends on how you setup it
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[12:54:54] <Bung> > Licaon_Kter wrote:
> Bung: yes, since users will upload files, but they'll be deleted after a while, depends on how you setup it
For example, can I set it to be deleted after 30 days
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[12:55:32] <Licaon_Kter> Yes
[12:55:37] <ij> for example, my current ~900 users are using somewhat between 5-10 GB upload files, that will be deleted after 30 days
[12:55:51] <ij> but the amount really depends on your users…
[12:55:59] <Licaon_Kter> You can even limit per file, eg. Max 100Mb
Even per account iirc
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[12:56:08] <Bung> Ahaha good
[12:56:16] <Licaon_Kter> docs.ejabberd.im
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[13:03:41] <ij> is it possible to use %HOST% in user_glob?
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[13:13:34] <Malvaceae> > to still be able to isolate some services from others?
https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html#Sandboxing
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[13:17:40] <Holger> ij, no.
[13:18:21] <Holger> ij, what's the use case?
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[13:20:42] <strejo> ij: so for family and friends it would hardly reach 1GB, what do you think? My internet has a data limit here
[13:21:30] <strejo> how do you have 900 users? Public xmpp server?
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[13:25:01] <ij> Holger, I had a bunch of registrations of kind <user>hookipa.net@hookipa.net and I don’t like that
[13:25:35] <Licaon_Kter> strejo: that was testing
800 with uploads
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[13:26:24] <ij> Holger, user_glob: “*%HOST%*“ would (hopefully) prevent this kind of accounts for any domain I configured or will configure
[13:27:03] <Licaon_Kter> strejo: 1500 w/o uploads
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[13:27:32] <Licaon_Kter> https://upload.convorb.im/7c370453f738f2c0c995eaee643e5e0aba76aeb0/8Zms8IAXZbRp0KsshzZURf5EFFOXxPpgtNPc4rjK/rpi31500-text.jpeg
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[13:28:13] <Holger> ij: Ah!
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[13:30:19] <ij> Holger, somehow it looked like a broken script, especially because all those registrations came from the same IP
[13:30:44] <ij> I’m still not convince that all those new registrations from China are real persons
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[13:31:39] <Holger> Spam bots?  (Though I haven't seen those $domain@$domain IDs from them.)
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[13:31:55] <strejo> ‎Licaon_Kter‎: what do you mean by "w/o uploads"? my english is not so good..
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[13:32:43] <ij> the users had Monal as resource, but this doesn’t need to mean anything
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[13:33:05] <Holger> Hmm.
[13:33:22] <ij> and they had contacts quickly added… which looks like a bot net, if you like to interpret it that way
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[13:38:18] <Licaon_Kter> strejo: w/   means "with"
w/o means "without"
Just shorter :)
[13:38:57] <strejo> oh thanks, I've leared a new one!
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[17:29:09] <neox> Hi there, I'm trying to setup an ejabberd server with STUN/TURN on a 3477 port. I did dns srv thing, I did modify ejabberd.yml to listen to 3477. But it's not working. What did I miss ?
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[17:30:02] <Holger> neox: What exactly happens if you try?  What log messages do you see?
[17:30:18] <Holger> neox: (BTW you don't need DNS records for Conversations/Dino/Movim.)
[17:30:34] <Holger> neox: Is the UDP port range accessible?
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[17:32:26] <Holger> neox: I.e., `turn_min_port` - `turn_max_port` (49152 - 65535 by default).
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[17:33:55] <neox> Holger: ok good to know (about DNS)
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[17:34:21] <neox> Loglevel is set to info, I only see the "Offering STUN/TURN services" line
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[17:35:26] <neox> The UDP port range is accessible. In fact, there is another ejabberd server that works in the infrastructure, but with 3478 port. And it is working
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[17:36:31] <neox> > Loglevel is set to info, I only see the "Offering STUN/TURN services" line
And Conversations does not suceed to connect call in the same time
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[17:43:42] <Holger> You have `mod_stun_disco: {}` without additional options?
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[17:46:12] <Licaon_Kter> neox: see Ops room, better use non-standard ports, else you'd get a lot of random connnections.
Via XEP-0215 server passes the right ports to your clients.
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[17:47:18] <Holger> But that's what he's trying to do, no? :-)
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[17:48:28] <Licaon_Kter> Because it's occupied I guess....not anti-randos
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[17:54:35] <neox> > You have `mod_stun_disco: {}` without additional options?
Holger: yes
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[17:55:26] <neox> Licaon_Kter: well ok, but I'm not in charge. One ask me to setup a server with that port for stun, so I'm trying to ;)
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[18:11:55] <Holger> How does the `ejabberd_stun` config look like?
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[18:12:04] <Holger> Did you specify an `ip:` address?
[18:12:17] <Holger> ... and a `turn_ipv4_address`?
[18:12:28] <Holger> Is it just a single (UDP?) listener?
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[18:20:54] <neox> Holger, something like that :
```
[18:21:03] <neox> Holger, something like that :
```
  -
    port: 3477
    ip: "::"
    transport: udp
    module: ejabberd_stun
    use_turn: true
    turn_ipv4_address: PUBLIC_IPV4
    turn_ipv6_address: PUBLIC_IPV6
  -
    port: 3477
    ip: "::"
    transport: tcp
    module: ejabberd_stun
    use_turn: true
    turn_ipv4_address: PUBLIC_IPV4
    turn_ipv6_address: PUBLIC_IPV6
```
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[18:23:26] <Holger> The system has a single network interface with a single public IPv4 and IPv6 address?
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[18:24:18] <neox> Holger, yes
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[18:24:35] <Holger> Well then the next step would be looking at the traffic.
[18:24:40] <Holger> ... with tcpdump or so.
[18:24:53] <Holger> And/or adb logs.
[18:25:26] <neox> As I said, there's another server running in the infrastructure (same public IPv4 btw, different IPv6) with port 3478
[18:25:44] <Holger> Well try changing to 3478 and see whether that helps?
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[18:26:06] <neox> Holger, I can't change, because 3478 is taken by the other server 😉
[18:26:16] <Holger> And or try setting `ip: PUBLIC_IPV4` (and then ...6`) to track it down.
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[18:26:26] <Holger> And/or remove the `udp` (and then the `tcp`) listener.
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[18:26:40] <Holger> But if this was my server I'd just watch with tcpdump.
[18:26:48] <Holger> There's nothing more we can do for you, sorry.
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[18:26:58] <Thomas Lewis> Also, use netstat to see if anything is actually listening on that port after restarting ejabberd.
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[18:27:29] <Holger> Repeating that it works with a different server using a different port doesn't help tracking it down.  I can assure you there's no `if port != 3478 then fail` in the code :-)
[18:27:51] <Thomas Lewis> ...and make sure you allow inbound tcp/udp connections through the firewall.
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[18:28:39] <Thomas Lewis> (Sometimes pointing out the dumb stuff is necessary. People tend to over complicate problems.)
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[18:31:48] <neox> > Repeating that it works with a different server using a different port doesn't help tracking it down.  I can assure you there's no `if port != 3478 then fail` in the code :-)
I answers to the "check firewall/router/interface/etc" assertion. There's another server in the same infra that works (with a pretty indentical config, same kvm clone, just 3478 port instead of 3477). Thank you anyway, I'll try to solve this on my own (and tell you if I find a solution)
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[18:31:55] <neox> > Repeating that it works with a different server using a different port doesn't help tracking it down.  I can assure you there's no `if port != 3478 then fail` in the code :-)
It answers to the "check firewall/router/interface/etc" assertion. There's another server in the same infra that works (with a pretty indentical config, same kvm clone, just 3478 port instead of 3477). Thank you anyway, I'll try to solve this on my own (and tell you if I find a solution)
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[18:41:49] <Holger> > just 3478 port instead of 3477
If you trust me that there's no special casing of the port in the code, it must be one of two reasons: (1) port 3477 is not accessible after all, (2) there's another difference you're overlooking.  Right?
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[18:43:07] <Holger> I'm happy to help, just saying I _can't_ without additional info (gathered from tcpdump or whatever; or possibly by tracking things down as I suggested above).  I have no ideas beyond that.
[18:43:42] <neox> Holger, no problem; don't worry
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[18:55:42] <neox> Holger, I found the problem rofl. You know, I'm using macros to store IPv4 and IPv6, and these are at the top of the config file. I didn't read these values for 4 days. I was trusting these values... and IPv4 was a *local* 192.x.x.x thing. Now, with the real public IP, spoiler: it works.
Thank you very much Holger, Thomas Lewis and Licaon_Kter 😅️ (I should sleep early this night)
[18:56:13] <Holger> 👍
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[19:03:44] <Thomas Lewis> See, it's the dumb stuff. 😆️
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[19:05:09] <neox> Thomas Lewis, always the dumb stuff 🤣️
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