Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Monday, November 1, 2021< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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[00:03:08] <Malvaceae> what are the security impliations, if any, of s2s_tls_compression and c2s_tls_compression?
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[00:11:18] <Thomas Lewis> Why would compression affect encryption?
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[00:13:59] <Malvaceae> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3749.txt see section 6
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[00:16:38] <moparisthebest> Malvaceae, Thomas Lewis: https://blog.thijsalkema.de/blog/2014/08/07/https-attacks-and-xmpp-2-crime-and-breach/
[00:17:00] <Malvaceae> my reading is that crime only applies to http?
[00:17:17] <Malvaceae> and breach was even more specific?
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[00:18:52] <moparisthebest> Equally applies to XMPP, maybe even more, cause longer lived sessions
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[00:19:43] <Malvaceae> so still a nono to use
[00:19:49] <Malvaceae> and most clients probably don't attempt it
[00:19:50] <Malvaceae> ?
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[00:40:56] <blendertestguy> Also if I have my own server and I turn off all s2s connections and then using non encrypted messages and TLS for the transfer, safe ? If one could trust its self hosted server?
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[01:47:15] <Malvaceae> blendertestguy: If you turned off s2s you would be able to be in this chat right now
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[01:47:20] <Malvaceae> Wouldn't*
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[01:48:06] <blendertestguy> This account isn't  from my server
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[01:49:54] <blendertestguy> Malvaceae: I have one where only selected family members can join and use so no s2s all centralized
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[01:50:47] <blendertestguy> So I was thinking to disable e2ee as TLS would be enough..?
[01:51:41] <Amolith> I want to port this Prosody module to ejabberd. I've never written a line of Erlang much less written a module for ejabberd. What's a good way to get started?
https://hg.prosody.im/prosody-modules/file/tip/mod_muc_badge/mod_muc_badge.lua
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[01:54:40] <Malvaceae> Why would you go out of hour way to disable e2e?
[01:57:58] <blendertestguy> Malvaceae: just theoretical question. If its my own server with external connection disabled like s2s ,would TLS be good enough to protect the message when it is going through internet?
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[05:16:12] <Licaon_Kter> blendertestguy:
> Malvaceae: just theoretical question. If its my own server with external connection disabled like s2s ,would TLS be good enough to protect the message when it is going through internet?
Yes
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[05:16:51] <Licaon_Kter> blendertestguy:
> is conversion audio encrypted my default? when I set omemo of be enabled?
Not related, separate things
OMEMO is used for verification of keys if you've verified contacts both ways
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[05:17:52] <Licaon_Kter> GandC:
> how i can call from my conversations(Encrypted audio and video calls (DTLS-SRTP)) to pc running pidgin or other xmpp client? whitch pc app is compatible with conversations?
Movim (self hosted) in a browser
Or Dino from OBS (see dino.im) not from distro repos as this is not yet released
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[05:22:19] <Licaon_Kter> blendertestguy:
> I guess I will download from apk  apkpure or something,the last resort
Not sure you'd find it
But apks have a pattern
`https://f-droid.org/repo/eu.siacs.conversations_VERSIONCODE.apk`
So for 2.9.3 that's `403`
Hence: https://f-droid.org/repo/eu.siacs.conversations_403.apk
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[05:22:47] <Licaon_Kter> blendertestguy:
> I guess I will download from apk  apkpure or something,the last resort
Not sure you'd find it
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[05:23:47] <Licaon_Kter> blendertestguy:
> I guess I will download from apk  apkpure or something,the last resort
Not sure you'd find it
https://f-droid.org/archive/eu.siacs.conversations_403.apk
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[08:28:33] <antonperst> Wonder if smb can help
I'm trying to set up ejabberd using the default config.
I've set up everything except for the SRV records for XMPP over TLS, and then I noticed that I don't have neither 5223 nor 5270 ports configured.
Moreover I guess I need 5222 to work without TLS. What am I ought to do?
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[08:45:33] <Licaon_Kter> antonperst: don'n bother with 5223 5270, just use the default config
[08:45:37] <Licaon_Kter> antonperst: don't bother with 5223 5270, just use the default config
[08:46:00] <antonperst> > antonperst: don't bother with 5223 5270, just use the default config
Licaon_Kter: how do I pass the compliance test then?
[08:46:10] <Licaon_Kter> You want to bypass firewalls and restrictive Wi-Fi? Then lookup multiplexing on port 443
[08:46:15] <Licaon_Kter> > Licaon_Kter: how do I pass the compliance test then?
Explain?!
[08:47:03] <antonperst> > You want to bypass firewalls and restrictive Wi-Fi? Then lookup multiplexing on port 443
> Explain?!
Licaon_Kter: I'm trying to make my server 100% compliant with XEP standards while keeping J2ME compatibility (most of these devices don't have TLS at all)
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[08:48:09] <Licaon_Kter> TLS is a MUST for XMPP, you want without it?
[08:48:23] <Licaon_Kter> Alsoe..why bother with j2me?!
[08:48:26] <Licaon_Kter> Also..why bother with j2me?!
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[08:51:57] <Holger> For XEP-0368 support, you can just copy the existing `ejabberd_c2s` and `ejabberd_s2s_in` listeners, adjust the `port`, and set `tls: true`.
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[08:53:58] <antonperst> > TLS is a MUST for XMPP, you want without it?
Is there a way to optionally use TLS, so that the modern clients use it automatically, while the old ones do not?
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[08:54:42] <Holger> antonperst: There is, but is there really any client that doesn't support STARTTLS on port 5222?
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[08:55:18] <antonperst> > antonperst: There is, but is there really any client that doesn't support STARTTLS on port 5222?
Well, I guess it does.
However, most J2ME phones do not support TLS at all, having only sslv1 support.
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[08:56:51] <Holger> antonperst: And you actually have users with such phones, and they have an XMPP client?
[08:57:05] <antonperst> > antonperst: And you actually have users with such phones, and they have an XMPP client?
Holger: that's what the problem is
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[08:58:43] <Holger> https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/listen-options/#starttls
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[08:59:02] <Holger> So you'd set `starttls: true` and `starttls_required: false`.
[08:59:27] <antonperst> I see, thanks for the help!
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[09:02:14] <Holger> Just to state the obvious, if you also allow SASL PLAIN auth (enabled by default), it's completely trivial for the attacker to read credentials (and the actual traffic, of course).  Wouldn't be an option for me to offer such a setup on a public Internet service.
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[09:02:37] <Holger> (And disabling PLAIN doesn't help much.)
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[09:25:38] <antonperst> > Just to state the obvious, if you also allow SASL PLAIN auth (enabled by default), it's completely trivial for the attacker to read credentials (and the actual traffic, of course).  Wouldn't be an option for me to offer such a setup on a public Internet service.
Holger: does that apply to all users?
[09:26:54] <Holger> antonperst: Only to those who's clients actually authenticate over a plaintext connection.
[09:27:04] <antonperst> I see, thx.
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[15:10:23] <Holger> antonperst, antonperst:
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[15:10:51] <antonperst> Holger: mmhm?
[15:11:04] <Holger> Er, sorry 🙂
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[16:02:38] <zainsidnetdev> Hey how are you all?
Is there a module that keeps call connected when you change a network? let's say from mobile network to wifi
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[16:05:32] <Licaon_Kter> zainsidnetdev: nope, sometimes it just works™
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[16:31:25] <gooya> Hi everyone! I am currently reconfiguring my ejabberd setup because I initially setted it up to 'just work' but now that I have some free time I would love to gain some knowledge and  increase my overall setup in terms of security and usability. I was wondering how many of you use a reverse proxy solely for the purpose of ejabberd and what the benefits and/or disadvantages are
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[16:33:00] <gooya> Beside the fact that you can intercept requests from clients and redirect them to other locations (in simple words)
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[16:34:08] <Licaon_Kter> What's the usecase?
[16:35:02] <Thomas Lewis> I only reverse proxy the http port for ACME requests. I’m sure the nginx file I use for that could be simpler.
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[16:35:23] <Licaon_Kter> SSLH for XEP-0386 here
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[16:36:43] <Thomas Lewis> https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/guide/security/ <— gooya
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[16:39:56] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: how much is the UDP performance improved with the stun changes? :)
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[16:40:46] <gooya> > What's the usecase?
Licaon_Kter:
the use case for my server is mainly for chatting with family and close friends. however, I'm thinking about making the public instance and let others use it as well. ( it is already open to the public but no unknown users are accepted as of now) I use nignx already for all of my other webservices but I can't think of any advantages yet that this could bring to my ejabberd server.
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[16:41:21] <gooya> > https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/guide/security/ <— gooya
these security measures are already in place 😉
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[16:42:46] <gooya> > I only reverse proxy the http port for ACME requests. I’m sure the nginx file I use for that could be simpler.
I manually grab my certificates using the letsencrypt bot due to dns challenges verification working only.
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[16:45:27] <Thomas Lewis> Well, the only other things I can think of are using SCRAM with sha512 in the auth_* settings and making sure STARTTLS is required for s2s and c2s.
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[16:47:58] <Holger> Licaon_Kter:
> Holger: how much is the UDP performance improved with the stun changes? :)
I have no proper benchmark, all I know is how those settings sound somewhat sensible in theory, and that CPU usage for a single test call went down by something like 50-70% on my small VM.
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[16:49:50] <Holger> (But CPU usage can be a highly misleading metric as long as you're far away from saturating the CPU.  Switching from activity to idling can be costly, so adding load may not affect CPU usage, and so on.)
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[16:54:26] <gooya> > Well, the only other things I can think of are using SCRAM with sha512 in the auth_* settings and making sure STARTTLS is required for s2s and c2s.
these options are already configured including strong tls ciphers and tls protocols. But this doesn't need a reverse proxy to work properly right?
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[16:59:01] <Thomas Lewis> No. Clients connect directly to 5222 with STARTTLS and servers to the s2s port that I can’t remember right now. You may want to reverse proxy the HTTPS port so you don’t have to add :5443 to the domain when logging in to the admin interface.
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[17:06:40] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: And I looked at what other servers are doing FWIW.
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[17:06:56] <Holger> And stumbled over them doing crap 😂
[17:06:59] <Holger> (<https://github.com/dnsimple/erldns/pull/134>)
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[17:14:52] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: _gotta fixxxxx them all_
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[17:18:32] <Holger> !
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[17:20:02] <Licaon_Kter> Soon in ejabberd too?
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[17:26:16] <Holger> Yup.
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[17:50:36] <nc1236> https://infosec-handbook.eu/articles/xmpp-aitm/
[17:50:38] <nc1236> thoughts on this?
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[17:54:27] <Licaon_Kter> nc1236: no, nothing new, same issues as other services like Signal or Whatsapp or Telegram
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[18:34:23] <Thomas Lewis> I would argue it’s not as bad as the silos. If your admin turns out to be a bad actor, you can change XMPP servers or host your own. You don’t have that option with the silo services.
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[18:43:12] <Malvaceae> zainsidnetdev: fwiw VoLTE handles that using an ipsec tunnel
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[23:55:54] eteebo joins the room
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