ejabberd - Tuesday, December 14, 2021

ejabberd

Tuesday, December 14, 2021< ^ >

zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im

Room Configuration

Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[04:07:14] JonNJ leaves the room: Machine is going to sleep
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[08:36:48] <Licaon_Kter> In what way this is a new thing?
https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/commit/8b7da70b57096d5c88c4128877e8802a12057bd4
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[08:38:27] <pchmielowski> looks like removes user from subscribers list when account is removed
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[08:52:59] <Licaon_Kter> So a missed usecase
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[12:04:19] <bung> Licaon_Kter: is processone fuly open source? All of project?
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[12:04:57] <Holger> bung: Are you a bot?
[12:05:09] <bung> > Holger wrote:
> bung: Are you a bot?
No xd
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[12:05:51] <Holger> Error in the Matrix? Licaon_Kter answered the same question yesterday, no?
[12:05:53] <Licaon_Kter> bung: then whp ask again?
[12:05:53] <Licaon_Kter> bung: then why ask again?
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[12:06:45] <bung> > Licaon_Kter wrote:
> bung: not fully, why?
This is not a answer
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[12:08:27] <Holger> You mean you didn't understand the answer, or what?
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[12:08:59] <Holger> ProcessOne is a company.  Most of their code I'm aware of is published as open source, but not all of it.
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[12:18:37] <bung> I'm going to open a server soon. What do you suggest?
[12:18:55] <bung> Ejabbered, prosody, snikket?
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[12:19:32] <bung> Ejabberd, prosody, snikket?
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[12:20:45] <Holger> bung, I'm going to buy a car soon, what do you suggest?
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[12:21:23] <bung> > Holger wrote:
> bung, I'm going to buy a car soon, what do you suggest?
Volvo v40
[12:21:37] <badlop> What do you suggest? <-- jabberd2
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[12:21:57] <Holger> bung: No matter what kind of car I need?  Small/city, large, family, fast?
[12:22:03] <Holger> bung, there's different pros and cons, so it depends on your priorities/requirements, plus a bit on who you ask because (as with cars) it's also a bit matter of taste.
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[12:23:02] <bung> Holger: I want small *safe* xmpp server
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[12:23:29] <Holger> "small" in the sense of "family & friends"?
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[12:27:32] <bung> > Holger wrote:
> "small" in the sense of "family & friends"?
Yes
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[12:28:30] <Holger> The main advantages I see in ejabberd vs. Prosody are that (1) Erlang is the right language for the job (usually only actually noticable on large instances, if at all), (2) it's way stricter in parsing input (only really noticable to client developers), and (3) it tries to ship everything required to offer a modern service out of the box.  (1) and (2) are probably not really relevant to you, and (3) is taken care of by Snikket.
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[12:30:11] <Holger> Main advantage I see in Prosody is that it's dead-simple to add modules, which is the reason that (1) there's a *huge* repo of community modules for any special purpose you might dream of, and (2) it's easy to add your own, custom stuff.
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[12:32:13] <Holger> Downside is that it's not always trivial to put together the modules you need even for more or less basic functionality, but as I said, that's fixed by using Snikket.  Which also offers a invitation system which can be really nice for family & friends, plus tries to offer a consistent experience with the iOS & Android clients.
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[12:48:07] <Licaon_Kter> ...but Docker....
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[12:49:24] <Martin> I’m running my private ejabberd in docker, easy to maintain
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[12:50:27] <Martin> At work I’ve created some scripts around it to run ejabberd in kubernetes cluster. And automatic clustering together :)
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[12:59:01] <Holger> I keep having a hard time making friends with the way Docker is used today.  I see how building your own Docker container can make sense for the special case where you want to deploy something onto a heterogeneous infrastructure.  But in practice people ask upstream vendors to offer ready-made containers to avoid dealing with dependencies, which of course easily results in either a maintenance nightmare or a security nightmare.  And it makes easy things complex as soon as you need to modify/debug something within the container.
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[13:00:34] <MattJ> As a distributor of both kinds of software, people using Docker definitely give me fewer headaches in the long term
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[13:01:29] <MattJ> It's partly the fixed dependencies and partly the fact there are only 2 config options
[13:02:25] <Holger> I understand the attractiveness to both admins and upstreams 🙂
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[13:02:51] <MattJ> There is the burden of maintaining the images and keeping on top of security issues in dependencies, but that's not uncommon and I generally deal a lot with distro maintainers for Prosody anyway, so it's not like I'm free of such work there either
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[13:03:30] <Holger> In my book its just that the downsides outweigh the initial ease.
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[13:05:18] <Holger> Fixing the Log4j for all proper Debian packages is a matter of (a) having Debian offer the fix and (b) running `apt upgrade` (easily automated).  Fixing Log4j for your Docker services is a matter of ... I dunno who cares anyway.
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[14:00:48] <Martin> Just pulling the new image and start it :)
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[14:01:08] <Martin> Does Ejabberd also have Log4j issues?
[14:02:06] <Licaon_Kter> Martin: no, it was an example, anm"what if"
[14:02:09] <Licaon_Kter> Martin: no, it was an example, an "what if"
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[14:03:55] <Martin> Mostly it is just rebuilding the docker image I think. Then it will reinstall the latest versions via apt (or other package manager) or compiles the newest version where the issues are fixed
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[15:06:58] <Alacer> Well For Docker, Its Pull the Base and then Rebuild. Sometimes Old Fashion is Much Reliable and Quick... Don't Take me Wrong Tela can do 300 Miles a charge but Engine needs 5 mins to have Gas Tank Refilled and another 300+ Miles.... I may be Old Fashion or Old Even But Docker cannot beat the native Install in my view. rest for scaling MicroApps per User on Same.Host is good use of Docker...
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[15:13:59] <Holger> Oh I was assuming that Docker images typically have the dependency versions hard-coded so that users don't easily stumble over the new Log4j version being incompatible with their service.
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[15:16:25] <Holger> Plus I was assuming that admins typically don't actually (re)build the image themselves, maybe that's wrong?
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[15:41:15] <Alacer> Docker's secret sauce is the layers based filesystem and log4J like Components could ve part of Intermediate layer(s), So then it needs an image rebuild. This is strength as well as weakness
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[15:42:06] <Holger> Ok but then I'm back to not quite seeing the advantage vs. plain old distro packages with regard to dependency versions 🙂
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[16:01:01] <Holger> Ok there's the case where you run multiple Java services on the same system which depend on _different_ Log4j versions.
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[16:35:59] <Alacer> Well alot of new devs I call the RustyPy gen are use to of Frameworks and Version dependencies. So for DevOps it makes it easy to prepackge dependencies as a container and then Developers can use it to develop their product and then create image of the dev-env and provide it for deployment as long as Host Kernel supports the Layerd Things But, then Port 80 on host for 1 Container, If 1 Container takes resources then, Rest of Host is gone.. Basically to me its more Like another deployment tool with its own quirks/Caveats... Rest OLd BSD Ports, APT, YUM have took long time to reach here...
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[16:36:51] <Alacer> By the way Siemens Uses Docker Now for some of their advance app but have their own Repo rather Hub
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[17:14:29] <Martin> I hope that software developers also build new docker images when there is a issue like this :)
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[20:02:48] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> I may need to export back to prosody, this is getting on my nerves
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[20:04:31] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Tue Dec 14 12:03:13 2021                                     Slogan: could not start kernel pid (application_controller) ({bad_environment_value,"#{label=>{erl_prim_loader,file_error},report=>\"File"})
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[20:11:07] <Licaon_Kter> Ellenor Bjornsdottir: context?
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[20:11:26] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Trying to restart ejabberd.
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[20:12:18] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Stopping was an affair all on its own involving _generous_ use of (BSD) killall
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[20:13:30] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Any use of ejabberdctl is met with this:
[Unvanquished xmpp]/root $ /opt/ejabberd/sbin/ejabberdctl help
2021-12-14 12:12:43.585000 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.594985 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.602881 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.607057 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.613484 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.618817 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.622671 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.626154 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.634448 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.639363 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.642569 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.654044 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.661456 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.667848 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.673792 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.677531 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.681899 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.684326 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.686684 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.688911 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.691268 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.693561 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.696364 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:43.699661 std_error           2021-12-14 12:12:44.136163 application_controller: ~ts: ~ts~n                                       "unterminated string starting with \"File\""                 "#{label=>{erl_prim_loader,file_error},report=>\"File"                                                            {"could not start kernel pid",application_controller,"{bad_environment_value,\"#{label=>{erl_prim_loader,file_error},report=>\\"File\"}"}                                              could not start kernel pid (application_controller) ({bad_environment_value,"#{label=>{erl_prim_loader,file_error},report=>\"File"})                                                                                                                Crash dump is being written to: /opt/ejabberd/var/log/ejabberd/erl_crash_20211214-121243.dump...done
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[20:26:21] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Friend suggests my config is syntactically incorrect. I know this to be wrong.
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[20:31:11] <Holger> Ellenor Bjornsdottir, certainly _not_ a problem in your `ejabberd.yml`, no.  Do you have anything set in your `ejabberdctl.cfg`?
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[20:31:39] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> I do.. why?
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[20:31:53] <Holger> And could you show the contents of your `ejabberd.app`?
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[20:32:38] <Holger> I'm basically AFK for this evening and have no time to look properly but at very first glance this might be two places that could be culprits.
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[20:33:21] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Where could I get ejabberd.app?
[20:33:25] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> POLL=true                                                                                                                 ERL_MAX_PORTS=262144
                                                             INET_DIST_INTERFACE=127.0.0.1                                                                                             ERL_EPMD_ADDRESS=127.0.0.1,::1                                                                                            ERL_PROCESSES=524288                                                                                                      ERL_MAX_ETS_TABLES=1000                                                                                                                                                                ERLANG_NODE=ejabberd@invictus.wa.us.umbrellix.net                                                                         EJABBERD_PID_PATH=/opt/ejabberd/var/run/ejabberd/ejabberd.pid                                                             EJABBERD_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/ejabberd/etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.yml                                                              CONTRIB_MODULES_PATH=/opt/ejabberd/opt/ejabberd-modules
                                                             CONTRIB_MODULES_CONF_DIR=/opt/ejabberd/etc/ejabberd/modules                                                                                                                            NO_TIMEOUT="--no-timeout"
[20:33:32] <Holger> The VM reads a few config values from a few places on startup and is highly unhappy with one of them.  And those are two places where those could be set.
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[20:34:16] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Nothing in .app
[20:34:20] <Holger> Ok looks fine.  Maybe `locate ejabberd.app`?
[20:34:27] <Holger> Empty file?
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[20:34:32] <Holger> That would be very wrong.
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[20:34:42] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> No, not empty
[20:34:49] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> No unterminated string "File
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[20:35:27] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> Have a good break Holger
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[20:50:30] <Ellenor Bjornsd.> We're on
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[23:09:51] <Holger> Ellenor Bjornsd., problem solved?  (How?)
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[23:10:16] <Ellenor Bjornsd.> I... literally just prodded it
[23:10:22] <Ellenor Bjornsd.> Heisenbug.
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[23:10:28] <Holger> 😕
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[23:10:46] <Ellenor Bjornsd.> Ye
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[23:13:03] <Holger> BTW, I've only tested this with eturnal so far, but I think once ejabberd uses the current `stun` code (<https://github.com/processone/stun/commit/e943fe0f52>), setting `use_proxy_protocol` for an `ejabberd_stun` listener should work.  Could be useful for multiplexing STUN/TURN via TLS on 443 with Nginx.
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