Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Thursday, December 16, 2021< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[01:09:42] <diego> Hello, are Let's encrypt certificates not supported anymore as of ejabberd 21.12?
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[01:22:05] <moparisthebest> Should be, do you have a really old openssl
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[01:32:13] <diego> I'm on ubuntu LTS so openssl is 1.1.1f it seems
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[01:32:54] <diego> Also do you mean 'should be' as in 'should be supported' or 'shouldn't be supported'?
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[01:37:38] <diego> Ubuntu LTS has an old ejabberd 20.01 which doesn't support STUN/TURN for voice calls so i decided to try the latest version through RUN installer
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[01:38:11] <diego> However this latest version doesn't seem to acknowledge Let's encrypt certificates
[01:38:36] <diego> At least that's what it says in the live erlang console
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[01:38:48] <diego> Any ideas on how i can debug this issue?
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[02:02:48] <moparisthebest> Should be supported
[02:03:17] <moparisthebest> I think you have to do something even with Ubuntu LTS to fix letsencrypt certs system wide...
[02:03:52] <bluejames> I just installed the latest version from source code on debian 11 i386 and no problem to use let's encrypt at all.
[02:05:06] <diego> I see
[02:06:11] <diego> Maybe by using the latest version alongside ubuntu's official package i made things too complex and bug-prone
[02:07:06] <diego> For example i just made an account in 21.12 ejabberd and it shows up in the official 20.01 too
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[02:08:55] <diego> 20.01 works with said new account, but 21.12 ejabberd says the password i typed is wrong
[02:09:29] <bluejames> Do you use plain password?
[02:10:06] <bluejames> 21.12 default is changed to encrypted password
[02:10:30] <bluejames> Previous version default is plain
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[02:10:55] <diego> On the 20.01 server it uses scram, on the latest 21.12 there's no explicit option for it on the config file
[02:11:29] <diego> > 21.12 default is changed to encrypted password
I see, maybe that's why it isn't explicitly stated
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[02:14:10] <diego> Do you guys symlink to the fullchain and privkey files?
[02:14:35] <diego> Or copy them to ejabberd/conf folder?
[02:14:38] <bluejames> Anyone use astrachat app as client? Got a very strange problem. It will show a weird name in roster list for every group chat. But this only with ejabberd not with prosody.
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[02:15:09] <bluejames> > Or copy them to ejabberd/conf folder?
I copied
[02:15:25] <diego> No sorry i don't use astrachat
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[02:16:37] <diego> I think i'm just gonna use the docker image because this behavior is too weird
[02:16:46] <bluejames> Too bad there is no decent xmpp client on iOS.
[02:17:22] <moparisthebest> bluejames: Snikket
[02:17:42] <moparisthebest> Just doesn't work well with ejabberd (yet?)
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[02:21:21] <bluejames> I tried almost all available on app store. Finally chosed Astrachat. But it has been abandoned 2 years ago. And got other weird issues too.
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[02:29:28] <diego> Maybe you can use a webclient?
> I tried almost all available on app store. Finally chosed Astrachat. But it has been abandoned 2 years ago. And got other weird issues too.
[02:30:38] <diego> So you can use it in your phone's browser?
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[02:32:54] <bluejames> Need voice call function. Not sure if the converse.js can do it. Never really try it.
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[02:39:26] <Thomas Lewis> > Too bad there is no decent xmpp client on iOS.
Siskin IM is my preferred iOS client.
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[02:53:25] <bluejames> I can't make voice call between siskin(iOS) and conversation(Android) It disconnect after accept.
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[03:00:10] <bluejames> Btw is it safe to add user in database user table directly?
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[03:22:19] <diego> Good question
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[03:22:36] <diego> I'd like to know too
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[09:51:30] <Riccardo> Hi everyone! I'm new to XMPP and to this chat also, so this question could been already asked.
I'm trying to implement a MUC in whatsapp style and I'm facing the typical problem of role and affiliation.
The purpose is to show the list of users, even if they are offline. This can be done with a member-only MUC and affiliation set to "member" for eachone. With this configuration, the members list shows always the correct information.
Unfortunately, there's a problem when someone leaves the conference room. The user send the unavailable presence and delete its conference bookmark, but he still remains in the member list. A member does not have the capability to ban and if I set him as Admin, the ban return a <conflict> (an admin cannot ban himself).
I read that a solution could be to extend the presence with a custom field and implement server-side the member removal. Is there any solution without modify the server? Did I misunderstood something?
Thanks for any clarification.
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[10:11:42] <Licaon_Kter> What's "whatsapp style" exactly?
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[10:14:51] <Riccardo> A MUC where you can access only by invitation and you can always check the invited users independently from their current presence
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[10:15:39] <Licaon_Kter> What's "Check"?
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[10:31:12] <Riccardo> I mean, every user can get the list of invided users
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[10:49:25] <Holger> Riccardo,
> A member does not have the capability to ban
You mean he doesn't have the permission to remove his JID from the members list (banning implies also adding the JID to an outcast list).  I created a local patch for a customer just a few weeks ago ...
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[10:50:35] <Holger> Maybe we should add a config option upstream, and maybe it would be good to have XEP-0045 adjusted to allow that behavior ...
[10:53:10] <Riccardo> I think the muc-light (https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-light.html) should solve this problem, but it's still a ProtoXEP.
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[10:54:01] <Holger> I think that spec found no traction and is mostly much dead these days (except maybe still used within MongooseIM).
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[10:54:30] <Riccardo> Got it
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[10:54:40] <Riccardo> Got it
[10:54:44] <Holger> ejabberd has its own custom extension to solve that problem (called MUC/Sub) which has the advantage that it's fully compatible with standard XEP-0045 clients.
[10:55:08] <Holger> And the future/standard solution is to migrate to MIX (but that's not done yet).
[10:55:29] <Holger> Anyway if you build ejabberd from source I could give you that patch.
[10:56:02] <Holger> Otherwise feel free to submit an issue on GitHub.
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[10:56:29] <Holger> I might try to motivate myself to ask for opinions on the standards@ list.
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[10:56:58] <Riccardo> So, this patch allows a member to remove himself from the memberlist?
[10:57:04] <Holger> MattJ, happen to have an opinion? 🙂  Should MUC members be able to remove themselves from the member list?
[10:57:05] <Holger> Riccardo, yes.
[10:57:12] <MattJ> Yes, via XEP-0077
[10:57:17] <Holger> Oh?
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[10:58:03] <Riccardo> Thanks, I will read it!
[10:58:05] <MattJ> XEP-0077 defines unregistration, XEP-0045 defines use of XEP-0077 (but unregistration specifically is not discussed or shown by example in XEP-0045)
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[10:58:21] <Holger> Hmm.
[10:58:24] <MattJ> i.e. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#register + https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html#usecases-cancel
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[10:58:49] <Holger> Seems weirdo to me.
[10:58:57] <MattJ> It would be very counterintuitive if you were allowed to register but not cancel your registration
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[11:00:35] <Holger> So clients should explicitly register whenever following an invitation to a members-only room?  Not to have their nickname registered (might or might not be a desired side effect) but only to gain the permission to remove themselves from the members list?!
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[11:01:09] <Holger> Why not simply allow servers allow JIDs to remove themselves from the members list?
[11:01:16] <MattJ> If they are already members, why would they need to register?
[11:01:28] <Holger> MattJ, tell me 🙂
[11:01:34] <MattJ> They wouldn't
[11:01:37] <Holger> MattJ, you brought up registration.
[11:01:53] <MattJ> Sure, because that's how a user manages their own membership with the room
[11:01:59] <Holger> The question was about leaving a private group chat.
[11:02:12] <Holger> So basically what I said.
[11:02:34] <Holger> I need to register in order to gain the permission to remove myself from the members list.
[11:02:48] <MattJ> If you're on the members list, you already have permission
[11:03:06] <MattJ> I don't understand where the registration part is needed if you're already affiliated
[11:03:13] <Holger> Ah you mean 0045 already allows me to remove myself from that list?
[11:03:35] <MattJ> Apart from the fact it doesn't explicitly say it, I certainly believe so :)
[11:03:36] <Holger> In that case it's maybe just ejabberd weirdness and I can simply push my patch \o/
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[11:04:12] <MattJ> If you receive a XEP-0077 <remove/> from an affiliated user, I 100% think the specs support removing that user from the affiliation list
[11:04:37] <MattJ> It would be yet another thing that deserves clarification IMHO
[11:05:04] <MattJ> Just a note in '45 that highlights that '77 also supports <remove/>
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[11:07:15] <Holger> MattJ, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#table-7
[11:07:47] <Holger> The state change from 'member' to 'none' is performed by:
> Admin or owner changes affiliation to "none"
[11:08:47] <Holger> As I said, in my book my question is unrelated to '77 support, but I'd agree that supporting <remove/> totally makes sense as well.
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[11:13:08] <Licaon_Kter> Riccardo:
> I mean, every user can get the list of invided users
Members only (only invited ones can join)+Visible JID (of everyone so you can just talk with them directly 1:1 if you want)=Private Group
Ref: conclusions here
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Sprints/2019_January_Brussels/Pad
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[11:13:27] <Licaon_Kter> Riccardo:
> I mean, every user can get the list of invided users
*Members only* _(only invited ones can join)_ + *Visible JID* _(of everyone so you can just talk with them directly 1:1 if you want)_ = *Private Group*
Ref: conclusions here
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Sprints/2019_January_Brussels/Pad
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[11:15:40] <Holger> Riccardo,
> every user can get the list of invided users
By the way, don't forget to also query the `admin` and `owner` lists.  (Allowing members to do that is another corner where ejabberd bends 0045 to allow for implementation of WhatsApp-like group chat.)
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[11:16:51] <Holger> Or if it's a custom solution bound to ejabberd anyway, maybe just go for MUC/Sub instead.
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[11:17:18] <Riccardo> Yes, already done! Thanks
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[11:18:21] <Riccardo> I would like to thank Holger, MattJ and Licaon_Kter because I learned a lot today
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[11:18:40] <Riccardo> but i still miss something
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[11:21:02] <Riccardo> Is Xep-0077 the solution to my problem? Should I add it to my code or the server patch will be pushed to git, solving it without any effort client-side?
[11:21:49] <Holger> I see no solution with current ejabberd, except for using the MUC/Sub subscriber list instead, which the client can remove himself from I think?
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[11:23:20] <Holger> Other than that I can only offer giving you my custom patch and/or submitting an issue on GitHub that describes the problem (member is not allowed to remove himself from the members list).  I'd rather not just push my patch without any discussion at least on GitHub, because I _think_ it somewhat goes against '45.
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[11:24:05] <Holger> > and/or submitting an issue on GitHub that describes the problem (member is not allowed to remove himself from the members list).
I mean *you* could do that 🙂
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[11:27:07] <Riccardo> Thanks Holger. Currently my company is evaluating the purchase of ejabberd enterprise, in this case I don't think the patch could be applied.
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[11:27:54] <Riccardo> But we can always ask for a change request 😃
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[12:29:55] <Holger> MattJ: And "Edit Member List" is "No" for the "Member" affiliation, here: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#table-6
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[12:34:53] <MattJ> Sure
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[12:35:54] <MattJ> If you think that argues against what I proposed, then you would also have to believe that the whole of section 7.10 is invalid :)
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[12:37:54] <Holger> Then I misunderstood you above. I thought you were saying I may already remove myself from the affiliation list without using '77 syntax.
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[12:39:07] <Holger> 7.10 is about registering your nick name, which is a separate topic in my book.
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[12:39:14] <MattJ> Oh, no, I didn't mean to suggest that
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[12:39:48] <MattJ> It's not a separate topic, it's a method to become a member of a room
[12:40:07] <MattJ> Literally the first sentence: "An implementation MAY allow an unaffiliated user (in a moderated room, normally a participant) to register with a room; as a result, the user **will become a member of the room**"
[12:40:15] <Holger> Yes. But there's other methods.
[12:40:16] <MattJ> (emphasis mine of course)
[12:41:05] <MattJ> Other methods like what? (that a user can do themselves, I mean)
[12:41:29] <MattJ> AFAIK this is the only mechanism by which a user can manage their own affiliation with the room, unless they are owner/admin
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[12:42:17] <Holger> Is my use case really unclear? 🙂
[12:42:22] <MattJ> If you mean using the normal affiliation change protocol, I think it *makes sense* to allow a member to remove their affiliation, but XEP-0045 is far from suggesting that should be implemented
[12:42:30] <Holger> I'm invited into a member-only room.
[12:42:35] <Holger> Later, I leave it.
[12:42:54] <Holger> I can't without using '77.
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[12:43:02] <Holger> Makes no sense to me.
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[12:43:59] <MattJ> and by "leave" you mean specifically "stop being a member", because obviously you need no permission to just leave the room and never come back
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[12:44:38] <Holger> Yes.
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[12:45:41] <Holger> Seems you're saying I should use '77 unregister even though no nick is registered.
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[12:46:08] <MattJ> I think the problem may be that you think XEP-0077 is only about nicknames
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[12:46:22] <Holger> Would obviously work but seems a bit thin weirdo to me.
[12:46:31] <Holger> Would obviously work but seems a bit weirdo to me.
[12:46:59] <MattJ> XEP-0077 is clearly, per 7.10, about managing your affiliation with a room, and setting a nickname is certainly part of what is supported
[12:47:23] <Holger> What's the downside in allowing me to remove myself from the list without '77 syntax?
[12:47:27] <Holger> >> Too bad there is no decent xmpp client on iOS.
> Monal, or as suggested Siskin/Snikket, yes.
[12:47:39] <MattJ> It's a shame that removing your registration is not clearly called out in '45, but I think that's just an oversight and common sense would agree it's meant to be allowed
[12:47:57] <Holger> > An implementation MAY allow an unaffiliated user (in a moderated room, normally a participant) to register with a room; as a result, the user will become a member of the room and will have their preferred nickname reserved in the room.
[12:48:22] <Holger> I might misunderstand the nickname thing there.
[12:48:29] <MattJ> I see no downside in allowing members to manage their own affiliation using the normal '45 affiliation change protocol
[12:48:35] <MattJ> Just to be clear
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[12:48:51] <MattJ> But unlike '77 integration, that would be entirely unspecified
[12:49:24] <MattJ> I'd support a move to allowing it, but "Stable" and all that...
[12:50:02] <MattJ> Prosody already bends '45 in ways that just make sense like this - such as showing you multiple real JIDs and showing users their own real JID even if they don't have permission to view anyone else's
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[12:50:22] <MattJ> I think that's very similar to allowing affiliation changes on yourself
[12:50:37] <MattJ> It just makes sense, because there's little reason not to
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[12:50:52] <MattJ> Especially if we agree that you *could* perform the same action via '77
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[12:54:30] <Holger> MattJ: I see, thanks!
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[14:07:56] <bunnybunbun> In the docs there is mentioned in built test suite. Don't find it on my system. Has to run it with CT_BACKENDS it says. Using latest version 21.12 on Linux system (debian based). Searched whole system for CT_ BACKENDS, also if it's inside files. Nothing.
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[14:11:45] <Holger> bunnybunbun, setting the environment variable `CT_BACKENDS` is optional.  If you don't specify it, the default is currently:
```
[mnesia, redis, mysql, mssql, odbc, pgsql, sqlite, ldap, extauth]
```
[14:12:01] <Holger> bunnybunbun, the docs say you _must_ set that variable?  Where?
[14:12:30] <bunnybunbun> Ok but how run test? It says make test. From where to run it?
[14:12:31] <Holger> bunnybunbun,
> Searched whole system for CT_ BACKENDS, also if it's inside files. Nothing.
The variable is checked in `test/suite.erl`.
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[14:13:23] <Holger> > but how run test? It says make test.
Yes, `make test`.
> From where to run it?
From the root directory of the source code.
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[14:14:11] <Holger> Depending on which `CT_BACKENDS` are activated, you'll need to prepare (SQL) databases first.  But the `make test` output will tell you what to do.
[14:14:13] <bunnybunbun> If installed from deb package it's not available? Have to compile from source?
[14:14:47] <Holger> bunnybunbun, you need the source code, yes.  That's how test suites typically work.
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[14:15:46] <Holger> bunnybunbun, the main goal of a test suite is checking source code changes for regressions.  If you're installing a binary package, the code was usually tested by the suite already.
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[14:17:39] <bunnybunbun> Ok I am noob. Want to run test on running node. To check how many it can handle. Or do you know an estimate how many users can be run from 1gb, 2cpu aws instance? What I can expect?
[14:18:05] <Holger> Ah no that's not the purpose of the test suite.
[14:18:22] <Holger> There's benchmark tools for that.  For example:
https://github.com/processone/rtb
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[14:21:52] <bunnybunbun> Ok thank you. Will look at it.
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[15:49:52] <dwd> Afternoon all. If I wanted to override the DNS lookup for S2S outbound, is that possible without code changes?
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[15:50:26] <edhelas> Hello :) !
[15:50:37] <dwd> edhelas, Oh, hi!
[15:51:30] <edhelas> I have a small question
[15:51:34] <edhelas> https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/modules/#mod-muc-admin
[15:51:56] <edhelas> this add adhoc commands for the admins to the MUC services ?
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[15:55:20] <dwd> edhelas, Certainly ejabberdctl commands. I don't know offhand if those are exposed as adhoc as well, and if so, if they'd be usable by MUC admins (assuming you meant XEP-0045 "administrator")
[15:56:14] <edhelas> more general server admins
[15:56:34] <edhelas> acl:
  admin:
    user:
      - "edhelas@movim.eu"
[15:57:03] <edhelas> (congrats for the release by the way !)
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[15:58:12] <edhelas> Holger https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/upgrade/from_21.07_to_21.12/ does not integrate the Pubsub index changes I told you :p ?
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[15:58:43] <edhelas> movim.eu is still having the fastest Pubsub service in town !
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[15:59:41] <dwd> Ah-ha, I have found `outgoing_s2s_ipv4_address` - that should, i think, do the trick.
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[16:00:08] <Licaon_Kter> edhelas:
> Holger https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/upgrade/from_21.07_to_21.12/ does not integrate the Pubsub index changes I told you :p ?
Some where not pr'd/pushed, Holger's fault :)
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[16:02:11] <Holger> dwd: That sets the source IP address, is that what you wanted?
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[16:02:31] <dwd> Holger, I'd just got there in the code - no, I need to change the address it connects to.
[16:02:38] <edhelas> create index pubsub_node_option_nodeid_index on pubsub_node_option (nodeid);
create index pubsub_item_nodeid_index on pubsub_item (nodeid);
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[16:03:04] <Holger> dwd: /etc/hosts? Or the ejabberd-specific inetrc.
[16:03:22] <Holger> edhelas:
> Holger https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/upgrade/from_21.07_to_21.12/ does not integrate the Pubsub index changes I told you :p ?
No.
[16:03:36] <edhelas> ejabberd is requesting those two tables using their nodeid, when you have a lot of items it starts to be quite IO intensive
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[16:04:03] <dwd> Holger, Ideally I need a blanket override. Everything outbound connects to the same IP/port. This one might need me to use my dodgy Erlang.
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[16:04:24] <Holger> dwd: everything is routed through the NSA?
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[16:04:53] <dwd> Holger, No, wrong customer. ;-)
[16:04:58] <edhelas> Holger don't say the N** word, please use "Cloud"
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[20:14:40] <Thomas Lewis> > And the future/standard solution is to migrate to MIX (but that's not done yet).
From what I gather, most people don’t care about MIX.
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[20:21:30] <edhelas> Lets finish the 0045 implementation first :p
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