Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Monday, June 13, 2022< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[02:19:49] <Mr.Newbie> Licaon_Kter: simply i forgot to install the dependences before compiling biboumi, funny thing even without the dependences it compiles fine and even runs and connects to an irc server, but some features doesn't work properly such as adhoc commands, so yeah i lost 3 hours of my life debugging such mistake 😖
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[08:42:56] <Manis> Hi, all!
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[08:45:51] <Licaon_Kter> Manis:  Hi there.
What brings you to this corner of the ecosystem?
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[08:48:13] <Manis> I'm trying to set up an ejabberd server, but I'm overwhelmed with what to set `ERLANG_NODE` to.
In a default installation on Debian it is set to `ejabberd@localhost` which works for a basic setup, but it seems like a hack to me as ejabberdctl.cfg says to "make sure that hostname is a real machine hostname".
If I, however change `ERLANG_NODE` to `ejabberd@the.real.fqdn` and restrict epmd to localhost (`ERL_EPMD_ADDRESS=127.0.0.1`), ejabberdctl is broken because, I suspect, it tries to talk to epmd using the WAN interface instead of lo.
What is the recommended way to configure `ERLANG_NODE`?
Or does it only matter in a clustered environment?
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[08:52:46] <pchmielowski> if you don't plan to setup cluster, you can keep localhost
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[08:53:16] <pchmielowski> it's only matter when multiple instances on different machines need to talk to each other
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[08:58:01] <Manis> But if I set it to the proper FQDN epmd needs to listen on all interfaces? Is that correct?
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[08:59:23] <pchmielowski> not sure about epmd, but ejabberd will need to be accesible on ip assigned to that host name
[08:59:56] <Manis> Which would be `INET_DIST_INTERFACE`?
[09:00:10] <pchmielowski> as other services will use ip of host to to connect
[09:00:25] <pchmielowski> quite possible they will also try to do that when accessing epmd
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[09:01:16] <Manis> OK, so I keep it localhost and change it should the service ever be clustered (which I don't expect to happen).
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[09:32:22] <Holger> Right, that's clearly what you want for a single node setup, it's not a "hack".
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[09:36:37] <Manis> Ah perfect, thanks @pchmielowski and @Holger.
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[10:12:29] <Manis> Another question just popped up: which database backend.
Does anyone have data on the scalability of the Mnesia and SQLite database backends?
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[10:23:45] <Licaon_Kter> Manis: define usecase, how many users? Have sql server already?
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[10:31:53] <Holger> Don't use Mnesia, no matter the use case 🙂 (Dunno about SQLite scalibility.)
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[10:56:12] <Manis> Use case is SOHO. ~20 users where I expect ~10 to use the service regularly.
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[10:57:35] <Manis> I'd have a PostgreSQL server running on this environment on which I could create a DB for ejabberd.
But of course SQLite would be simpler from an admin PoV. Just one file on the same machine ejabberd is already running.
[10:57:56] <Licaon_Kter> Manis: I'd recommend to use psql if it's there
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[12:01:35] <badlop> Well, for just a few hundreds of online users, mnesia is enough, right? If the server someday increases its DB usage, it's time to migrate to some SQL
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[12:05:07] <Holger> badlop, I disagree, because the Dets backend is limited to 2 GB of disk-only storage and sometimes breaks randomly even before reaching that limit.  Dunno how often it happened, but over the years I've seen several such cases.  So at least with MAM enabled, I recommend against Mnesia even for family and friends servers.
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[12:05:47] <Holger> And I see no advantage except for our built-in schema migration.
[12:06:15] <Zash> Y'all need a simple file system text based database!
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[12:08:25] <Holger> Doing that excessively at work because both my co-workers and me had the same mindset, so I totally get where you're coming from.  But I'm getting old and am no longer convinced that using a database for a database is really such a bad idea 🙂
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[12:09:08] <Holger> I still sympathize with using file system up to the point where you start reinventing database wheels such as indexes or whatnot.
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[12:09:57] <Holger> And with things such as chat servers, you eventually do just that, at least with MAM, at least if you go beyond family & friends (let alone clustering).
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[12:11:14] <Zash> Life is too short to fight SQL.
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[12:11:47] <Holger> My issue is not just reinventing wheels as such, but also that you start loosing the advantages of plain files once they stop being trivial to understand and edit.
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[12:12:29] <Holger> SQL usually seems to just work for me 🤷‍♂️️
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[12:15:01] <Holger> Admittedly plain files might be a better default than Mnesia, which isn't designed for persistent storage of non-trivial amounts of data (it's Redis, not SQL).  But I'd think SQLite should work at least as well, and has the advantage of being more similar to Postgres/Maria.
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[12:18:12] <Zash> Lua traces its heritage to a data format, so it's doing allright as such.
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[12:44:29] <Manis> If I use SQL for users, MAM and as `default_db`, is it possibly to completely eliminate Mnesia and its locking to the Erlang Node?
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[13:03:43] <Holger> Manis, "its locking"?
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[13:04:36] <Holger> Manis, Mnesia is always used for runtime state, no matter what you use for persistent data.  (Well strictly speaking you can configure Redis/SQL as a "RAM DB" instead but why would you want that.)
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[13:05:45] <Holger> badlop, the EIMP support in the `-2` packages is indeed broken again.  I rebuilt them, still broken.  Both of us have seen it working, right?!
[13:05:57] <Holger> I'm sure I'll start dreaming bad about this.
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[13:10:21] <Holger> Ah I guess both of us only tested with the current `master` code.  https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/actions/runs/2483263104 is still fine.
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[13:21:55] <Holger> badlop, if I build a DEB from `master` on my local machine, it works as well.  So it's not about some GitHub Actions vs. local issue.  It's about 22.05 vs. master.  No idea why, and I think I'm too lazy to debug this in my spare time, given it's basically a feature only interesting to commercial customers.
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[13:38:32] <Licaon_Kter> > it's basically a feature only interesting to commercial customers.
Then why do I have 2 eimp processes/host started on my non commercial machine?
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[13:40:22] <Licaon_Kter> The answer from Nov 21
> Afaik it converts image formats (plus maybe do scaling) used for avatars
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[13:40:43] <Holger> Licaon_Kter, well the other half of the story is that EIMP is also used by `mod_avatar` to convert between image formats.  In practice this was used back in the stone-age to work against Daniel's WEBP.
[13:41:13] <Licaon_Kter> Half the story means all the story when it's broken...
[13:41:14] <Holger> IIRC that's how EIMP came into life back then (added by zinid).
[13:41:32] <Holger> Conversations switched to JPEG ages ago right?
[13:41:33] <Licaon_Kter> (Not broken for me at least)
[13:41:41] <Holger> Since then, nobody needs auto-conversion anymore.
[13:41:42] <Licaon_Kter> Dunno, maybe
[13:41:58] <Holger> So yes we're left with the thumbnail thing.
[13:42:28] <Licaon_Kter> Do guide me on how to disable it on my non-thumbnail install then?
[13:42:37] <Holger> Nobody I know needs that either (including the customers I'm involved with) but I've spent hours in fixing this crap, now DON'T JUST DELETE IT 😂️
[13:42:43] <Holger> Licaon_Kter, you can't.
[13:42:58] <Holger> Or, well, you build from source, so you _could_ 🙂
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[14:09:29] <Licaon_Kter> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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[14:31:18] <Manis> @Holger re "locking": I meant that you need to convert the Mnesia DB whenever ERLANG_NODE changes.
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[14:31:41] <Manis> If Mnesia is just used as a RAM DB this wouldn't matter because you restart ejabberd anyway after you change ERLANG_NODE.
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[14:36:20] <Holger> Ah.  Right.  You might still have to `rm -rf $mnesia_dir` because the node name/schema _is_ stored persistently even if you have only RAM tables (but can just be removed and will be auto-recreated in that case).
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[14:38:42] <Manis> Ah OK, so no change in that regard. If that's the case I'd probably still follow this 5 or so step guide just to be on the safe side.
[14:39:33] <Manis> Is there a way to extract the current node name from an Mnesia DB?
[14:39:38] <Manis> Is there a way to extract the current node name from an Mnesia DB from the shell?
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[14:39:51] <Manis> (I'm thinking about automation now)
[14:40:06] <Holger> Do you keep switching back and forth? 🙂
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[14:40:16] <Manis> Absolutely 😊
[14:40:43] <Manis> No, I'm just thinking how I should handle the case that the ERLANG_NODE doesn't match what the configuration says it should be.
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[14:41:16] <Manis> (e.g. fresh installation defaults to ejabberd@localhost but configuration wants a clustered setup and thus a different node name)
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[14:48:20] <Holger> Manis, if you know the Mnesia directory, e.g. `/var/lib/ejabberd`:
```
erl -noinput -mnesia dir '"/var/lib/ejabberd"' -eval 'io:format("~s~n", [hd(mnesia:system_info(db_nodes))]), halt()'
```
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[14:50:02] <Manis> Perfect, thank you.
[14:50:33] <Manis> I don't know anything about Erlang, so maybe this is a stupid question: does every Erlang application have an Mnesia DB?
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[14:51:36] <Holger> Or if you can depend on a running ejabberd process:
```
ejabberdctl mnesia_info | sed -n 's/.*{db_nodes,\[\(.*\)\].*/\1/p'
```
[14:52:31] <Holger> Manis, no, Mnesia is shipped as a standard library with Erlang/OTP, but it's entirely optional to use, many Erlang applications don't.
[14:53:09] <Holger> (And Linux distros like Debian sometimes split Mnesia and other things out into separate packages; so with those applications you might not even have it installed.)
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[14:53:46] <Manis> Ah ok, I was irritated by the -mnesia option in the erl call.
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[14:54:55] <Holger> `erl` accepts arbitrary `-foo $key $val` options which are than handed over to the library called `foo`.
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[14:56:28] <Manis> I see. Fancy.
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[14:56:37] <Manis> And the double quoting of the directory?
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[15:00:06] <Holger> The argument sets the Mnesia option 'dir' to a string value, "/var/lib/ejabberd".  This is Erlang syntax, so the double quotes are required to mark it as a string.  Yes the double quoting is ugly from a Unix admin's POV 🙂
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[15:04:19] <Manis> I'm maybe a bit too paranoid with my shell scripts with regards to quoting. Are there any special characters that need to be escaped in an Erlang string?
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[15:06:10] <Holger> Yes, at least backslash and (obviously) double quotes are special, similarly to C and other languages.
[15:06:29] <Holger> https://www.erlang.org/doc/reference_manual/data_types.html#escape-sequences
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[15:51:56] <badlop> offtopic: regarding recaptcha support in ejabberd, there are some elixir libraries that maybe can be used
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[16:19:57] <nitro5> I use mnesia on ejabberd 22.05. I messed up the mnesia database once. Just added a line to the yaml configuration file "language - ru". I had to re-assemble the ejabberd and install 21.12. This was about six months ago. But I still use mnesia.
decided to write about this case. maybe it will be useful for you to know about my experience of "messing up the system" :))
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[16:22:42] <nitro5> I want to add one more thing... at that time, the nicknames on my jabberd server contained Cyrillic characters. I don't do that anymore.
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