Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, September 23, 2022< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[01:32:36] <PatRiot> Good evening everyone!
Is it possible to set up ejabberd for a "closed system" so that users cannot join other servers outside their own domain, so everything stays "at home"? e.g. for a family chat. Can you prevent "disclosing your server's address" (so to speak) on server side, by not letting users go outside of your own domain? (Admins of group chats can see the addresses afaik). Thanks for your attention.
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[03:44:45] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: yes, you allow s2s only to the client push servers
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[08:15:10] <Licaon_Kter> That CVE is important?
https://www.erlang.org/news/158
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[08:15:57] <Licaon_Kter> That CVE is important?
https://www.erlang.org/patches/otp-25.1
[08:17:01] <prefiks> We are not using this module for server side
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[08:18:17] <prefiks> i think only client side stuff will use it (only exception i think is mini server used by tests, but it doesn't use client certs)
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[11:38:49] <snailbrain> Hi again, regarding storing dms related to our  last problem, my developer says:
"it only saves 100 message per user but the problem is once 100 message is reached it should delete old message and save new one but it's not doing that"
to Licaon_Kter: regarding which library, "we use dart, and it's not a tradnition js library, just a simple dart intergration which we added and updated to our requirements, we also tried conversejs and it was the same problem"
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[11:40:46] <MattJ> snailbrain, they are querying the messages using the protocol described in XEP-0313?
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[11:42:28] <MattJ> If so, I suspect they may not be performing the correct query. XEP-0313 responses are generally limited to a certain number of messages, and would default to the oldest 100 messages just like you're describing.
[11:42:31] <MattJ> See https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html#query-paging
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[11:42:51] <MattJ> And if you only want the most recent messages, this shows how to do that: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html#sect-idm46063461824576
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[11:47:34] <MattJ> https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/mam-explorer/ may also help understand the query mechanism
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[12:03:38] <PatRiot> > Licaon_Kter:
> 2022-09-23  05:44 (GMT+02:00)
> PatRiot: yes, you allow s2s only to the client push servers
Ok, thank you. Can you explain this to me a little more detailed please? Thx in advance.
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[12:15:49] <Licaon_Kter> This was discussed above, scroll a bit :))
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[12:20:47] <PatRiot> Hm? 🤔
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[12:21:24] <PatRiot> Only see discussion about 100 messages
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[12:24:16] <Licaon_Kter> Use acl rules ( docs.ejabberd.im ) to allow only access to these servers:
`p2.siacs.eu`
`push-ios.snikket.net`
`push.tigase.im`
`s1.eu.prod.push.monal-im.org`
`s2.eu.prod.push.monal-im.org`
`s1.us.prod.push.monal-im.org`
`s2.us.prod.push.monal-im.org`
`ios13push.monal.im`
`push.monal.im`
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[12:25:18] <MattJ> I think this is a very bad way of doing things, for the record
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[12:25:50] <Licaon_Kter> Feel free to suggest a better way
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[12:26:05] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: why do you want to isolate your users?
[12:26:07] <MattJ> Block outgoing stuff from the user, but don't block outgoing push notifications
[12:26:22] <Licaon_Kter> How to filter in ejabberd?
[12:26:36] <MattJ> I don't know. Ask in the ejabberd support channel :P
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[12:27:36] <MattJ> If it's not supported, it should be. Otherwise as soon as Monal adds s1.ap.prod.push.monal-im.org then it will just break quietly
[12:27:47] <MattJ> You already missed the Snikket Android push server from that list
[12:28:00] <Holger> Simple, just use the `mod_filter` I've thrown into some Pastebin recently, and then forgot to push into the repo!
[12:28:01] <MattJ> and you can't keep it up to date manually
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[12:28:24] <MattJ> Excellent, a solution :)
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[12:29:06] Holger <- trying his best to find the code.
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[12:29:20] <Holger> No idea how I managed to become this old while being that unorganized.
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[12:30:12] <Holger> BTW `server_glob: "*.monal-im.org"` or something would at least take care of the `s1.ap` thing.
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[12:33:55] <Licaon_Kter> MattJ:
> You already missed the Snikket Android push server from that list
That should tell you that I don't have Play Store Snikket users
And second, where's the push server listed on snikket.org ?
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[12:34:34] <PatRiot> > Licaon_Kter:
> 2022-09-23  02:25 (GMT+02:00)
> Feel free to suggest a better way
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> PatRiot: why do you want to isolate your users?
To protect my server getting attacked by revealing the domain address
[12:34:44] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: what?
[12:34:54] <MattJ> Licaon_Kter, should it be listed on snikket.org?
[12:35:44] <Licaon_Kter> MattJ: dunno, might be helpful, eg. https://monal-im.org/privacy/
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[12:36:27] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: they can attack you anyway, what's the "threat model" exactly?
What if your users want to talk with their friends from Quicksy?
[12:36:27] <MattJ> Our equivalent page is https://snikket.org/app/privacy/
[12:36:43] <MattJ> But it looks like Monal lists the services so that people can do what I'm saying shouldn't be done :)
[12:36:54] <MattJ> Since the addresses can change over time
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[12:37:08] <Licaon_Kter> True
[12:37:44] <MattJ> PatRiot, domain names are not private information
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[12:38:19] <PatRiot> > Licaon_Kter:
> 2022-09-23  02:34 (GMT+02:00)
> PatRiot: what?
When family users join other servers with my ejabberd-server-domain, they reveal my address to others. And I don't wonna get attacked / hacked by some guys out there...
Is this understandable now?
[12:38:27] <MattJ> DNS is a public database anyone can query, and if you obtain certificates for any services on your domain then it will also be logged in public certificate transparency logs
[12:38:50] <PatRiot> > MattJ:
> 2022-09-23  02:37 (GMT+02:00)
> PatRiot, domain names are not private information
Sure. But they don't need to be spreaded more than neccessary
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[12:40:38] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot:
> What if your users want to talk with their friends from Quicksy?
...
[12:40:45] <PatRiot> If someone sees the domain name, maybe he tries to check it. Reading and seeing as motivation, you know? A reminder. Nobody makes the effort checking dns for domains to attack
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[12:41:48] <PatRiot> > Licaon_Kter:
> 2022-09-23  02:36 (GMT+02:00)
> PatRiot: they can attack you anyway, what's the "threat model" exactly?
> What if your users want to talk with their friends from Quicksy?
They need another account on different 'public' server. My one is only for family, closed system.
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[13:12:54] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: mmkay, I don't agree, but as you see fit
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[13:13:42] <PatRiot> Maybe I'm paranoid :)
[13:14:45] <Licaon_Kter> We all are, but...
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[13:20:23] <PatRiot> Another point are the resources.. The more servers and chats are connected the more power my little server needs and consumes
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[13:29:53] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: thah was no issue on RPi1 but lol
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[13:30:26] <PatRiot> Ok, but with matrix it is :D
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[13:34:59] <Millesimus> PatRiot: You might be interested in this real-world comparison:
https://disroot.org/en/blog/time-to-switch-some-lights-off
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[13:37:51] <PatRiot> Millesimus: I am absolutely. Thanks
[13:39:16] <PatRiot> Millesimus: and what's about Nextcloud Talk?
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[13:43:13] <Millesimus> PatRiot: Different usecase (organisations), eternal clear-text storage of all messages in the database. I don't have any numbers regarding performance, but since you would only have chats among your family I guess it would be acceptable (but NC is never snappy).
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[13:47:10] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot:
> Ok, but with matrix it is :D
Lol no need to run matrix you fool :)
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[13:54:18] <PatRiot> Licaon_Kter: I don't. Just compared. No reason to insult, lol
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[13:55:13] <Licaon_Kter> PatRiot: Y U can't into jokes?
[13:55:20] <PatRiot> Millesimus: it's not possible to encrypt NC database? Oo
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[13:55:43] <PatRiot> Licaon_Kter: oh, ofc I can ;) all fine
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[13:57:38] <Millesimus> PatRiot: Afaik not, but maybe that kind of question is better directed to this MUC: xmpp:nextcloud@conference.jabber.de?join
[13:57:52] <PatRiot> Sure. Thx
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