Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, January 6, 2023< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[10:09:41] <zhoska> Hello guys. I have a question. In xmpp, http upload is a popular file sharing method. When someone sends files from another server, this is a de-anonymizing factor for users of my server, because they directly connect to someone else's server to download the file. Do I understand correctly that proxy65 solves this problem? That is, the client is detecting the proxy65 working service at my ejabberd and uses it to upload http upload files?
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[10:09:57] <Molnija Bjornsson> No.
[10:10:16] <zhoska> Then what is it needed for?
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[10:14:13] <zhoska> I didn't really understand
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[10:22:18] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0065.html
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[10:25:17] <zhoska> I'm sorry, but sometimes I think you're laughing at me. I have already seen these sites, but their translation is unreadable for me. Therefore, I ask to be told in simple English words what this mod is used for
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[10:28:55] <Licaon_Kter> If the Abstract section is confusing to you, not sure what I can say :(
[10:29:53] <Licaon_Kter> Used for file transfers, either directly client to client or via the server. Either the contact sees your IP or (one of) the servers do.
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[10:32:04] <zhoska> Kind of got it
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[10:35:18] <zhoska> It's just that one of the main accusations for xmpp is that the ip of users can become known to the admins of other people's servers due to http upload. I was looking for a solution to this problem.
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[10:41:55] <Licaon_Kter> That's neither here nor there. All the other services admins see it as well, right?
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[10:45:05] <zhoska> The ideal would be to download files via http upload using your server (on which you are registered) as a proxy. Yes, other admins will see the JID, but they won't know the ip
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[10:48:59] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: then your admin sees the files and urls you visit? No good...
[10:53:49] <zhoska> He already knows which chats I'm sitting in. If the messages are private encrypted, then he will see the download of the encrypted file, and I will decrypt it myself on my client. Anyway, it's better if the administrator of one server knows my ip than the administrators of several servers
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[10:57:51] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: _"user downloads `https://bombplans.com/bigb00m.pdf`"_
Yeah...ok..
[10:58:40] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: _"user downloads `https://xmpp.b00mbers.com/upload/oonaboomber/hash/bigb00m.pdf`"_
Yeah...ok..
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[10:59:17] <zhoska> what is this?
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[11:00:27] <Licaon_Kter> What your admin will see...yes the file might be encrypted but...
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[11:05:25] <zhoska> I understand your idea that the name of the file can tell a lot. However, in such a case, you can make 2 types of configuration depending on the wishes of the administrator. I.e., when registering on the server, clients are notified that the server is used as a proxy (myejabberdproxy = true), or is not used (myejabberdproxy = false). Users would choose the appropriate servers at their discretion.
[11:06:38] <zhoska> Yes, the problem is long, but it seems to me at the moment it is more important than matrix integration
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[11:08:28] <zhoska> I have friends who are inexperienced in xmpp. Bad people could take advantage of their file autoloading and find out the ip of my friends on their small servers.
[11:12:17] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: most/good clients don't download random stuff posted in public channels. But they do in (somewhat trusted) private groups and 1:1 chat.
[11:12:26] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: most/good clients don't AUTO download random stuff posted in public channels. But they do in (somewhat trusted) private groups and 1:1 chat.
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[11:15:17] <zhoska> Even Whatsapp is difficult for many to set up. Not to mention clients like Conversations. Such clients require a good understanding of how XMPP works. I have been thinking for a long time about how to simplify the explanation of use so that even my elderly relatives can start using it without threatening themselves
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[11:20:20] <Licaon_Kter> > Even Whatsapp is difficult for many to set up.
There's nothing to set up...
> Not to mention clients like Conversations.
Nothing to setup in Quicksy either lol
zhoska: 👏 threat 👏 model 👏
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[11:49:03] <zhoska> lol what a monster this quicksy of yours is
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[11:50:23] <zhoska> I'm trying to find out how to close the ip of users here, and you advise me that monitors my phone number 😀
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[11:55:30] <Licaon_Kter> zhoska: you said Whatsapp...
[11:57:22] <zhoska> I meant that I strive to simplify complex free projects to the level of proprietary ones. You understand that they are easier to use. The art is to make the complex simple. That's why I mentioned him.
[11:57:52] <zhoska> If using XMPP is just as easy, then its popularity will be higher
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[12:06:53] <Licaon_Kter> It is already, because users of the popular ones don't ask all these questions like you do...
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[12:21:20] kapad i cant think a way of communicating through network without 'at least someone' knows your ip
[12:24:14] <zhoska> Someone will know, but it's about reducing the number of those who know
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[12:27:27] <kapad> when you upload our server knows you/or-your-proxy ip. when p2p the other side knows that. that's the most minimal, what else. Most, when using xmpp without 1:1 connections, other servers knows your server ip, not yours. so if using a proxy/tor, none knows real ip.
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[12:27:45] <kapad> when you upload your server knows you/or-your-proxy ip. when p2p the other side knows that. that's the most minimal, what else. Most, when using xmpp without 1:1 connections, other servers knows your server ip, not yours. so if using a proxy/tor, none knows real ip.
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[12:29:25] <kapad> so, in general, find a server you trust, and let server deal with communication, and deal 1:1 connections again with people you trust
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[12:30:22] <kapad> complex scenarios can exist, but at the end can't think something more ...
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[12:35:21] <zhoska> I know a lot of solutions to this problem (tor proxy), but I am interested in making everything work as it should by default and not with a lot of additional settings. That's why I suggested a method for the XMPP server to act as a proxy when sending http upload files. So that users do not directly connect to other people's servers, but only to the one they trust
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[19:38:01] <Zash> That idea has floated around before, to have your own server provide a proxy for getting at http uploads from others. Some abuse potential tho.
[19:39:32] <Zash> Also for stuff like link previews.
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