Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Tuesday, June 13, 2023< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[02:03:22] <tyler_h> > I'm not too sure but I believe for movim you need to define a 'xmpp-server' srv record for the upload destination
Thank you.  I tried with gajim and when trying to upload an image it gave me an error about "cannot connect to server"
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[03:23:04] <tyler_h> https://upload.movim.eu/files/1066220ae4d1cb2eb72c9ab55f4cd0126c7a6915/XxG3QaudycnX/Screenshot_from_2023-06-12_21-22-45.png
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[03:23:09] <tyler_h> latest failure
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[03:33:14] <tyler_h> https://upload.movim.eu/files/1066220ae4d1cb2eb72c9ab55f4cd0126c7a6915/Lsqq4bHtud2E/Screenshot_from_2023-06-12_21-32-58.png
[03:33:29] <tyler_h> this was the error log with using the client gajin
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[06:14:43] <☭Mike Yellow> Where to find Ejabberd SVG format logo icon?
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[09:30:34] <Manis> I set up an ejabberd server with mod_register, but Dino doesn't support In-Band Registration ("check server for information on how to sign up"). Does anybody know what this means?
In-Band Registration using Conversations worked just fine, OTOH.
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[09:36:14] <Licaon_Kter> Manis: you have capcha? Dino should register just fine, afaik
[09:36:23] <Licaon_Kter> Manis: you have captcha? Dino should register just fine, afaik
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[09:36:54] <Manis> Licaon_Kter, no, no CAPTCHA.
[09:37:07] <Manis> (or at least not yet)
[09:38:23] <Licaon_Kter> Dino shows any errors?
https://github.com/dino/dino/wiki/Debugging#debug-output
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[09:39:54] <friederike> better question: what version of dino?
[09:39:58] <☭Mike Yellow> I guess Dino gets table to send register information, and Conversations send register information directly.
[09:40:44] <☭Mike Yellow> Is my guess right?
[09:40:52] <Manis> Dino is latest master commit 4bb0c46.
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[09:42:48] <Manis> Debug output is interesting. It reports `IPv6 DNS error: Error resolving server: Name or service not known` which makes sense, the service is not accessible via IPv6.
Then it reports `GSocketClient: Connection successful!` (I assume it silently fell back to IPv4).
Then: `registration.vala:166: Error connecting to stream: Operation was cancelled`
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[09:45:46] <Manis> The `Operation was cancelled` error seems to be normal, though. It even logs it when I try to register with yaxim.org where Dino shows the registration form.
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[10:10:52] <Licaon_Kter> Can you try to make with Dino a new account on conversations.im server?
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[12:35:44] <Manis> > Can you try to make with Dino a new account on conversations.im server?
Sure, sorry for the late response; had to run.
Registration on conversations.im worked (the CAPTCHA was a bit annoying, though).
[12:36:49] <Manis> > Server offers STUN server: stun.conversations.im:443, resolved to 89.238.78.51
Is it recommended to run STUN on port 443 for some reason?
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[12:38:25] <Holger> Offering TURN via TLS on 443 as a fallback might help clients with circumventing super-restrictive firewalls.
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[12:39:09] <Holger> Obviously only makes sense if you also offer XMPPS on 443 for the same reason.
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[12:42:29] <Holger> On conversations.im we also offer TURN via UDP/TCP on 443 but that's basically just 'because we can', no good reason.  Maybe for the corner case where firewalls permit UDP/TCP via 443 and don't check for TLS encryption.
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[12:46:43] <Holger> If you support such environments, it just renders the other 65,534 port numbers unusable, so you gotta tunnel everything through 443.  I'm sure things are much more secure that way.
[12:47:12] <Holger> !version messaging.one
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[12:47:31] <Holger> Servant gone!!
[12:47:37] Licaon_Kter looks up info, ah, old kernel still....
[12:47:46] <ZHOSKA> Good day. I tried kaidan. It supports Omemo2, although I have not seen information about the new version of OMEMO either in gajim or in dino or in mobile clients. Does anyone here know where to read about the new version of this type of encryption?
[12:47:46] <Holger> 😂️
[12:48:06] <Holger> Licaon_Kter, bookworm is stable, gotta update indeed!!
[12:48:33] <Licaon_Kter> ZHOSKA: xep-0384 v0.8
[12:48:48] <Licaon_Kter> The other clients support up to v0.3, fyi
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[12:50:41] <Manis> Holger, ah the good old all the world's the web. I feared this would be the answer. I don't think I want to support this and I only have one public IPv4 available, anyway.
[12:51:36] <Licaon_Kter> ZHOSKA: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0384-0.3.0.html vs https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0384-0.8.3.html
[12:51:47] <Manis> > Obviously only makes sense if you also offer XMPPS on 443 for the same reason.
Good old "5222" or would BOSH/WSS suffice?
[12:53:21] <Holger> Well for the case where the firewall (a) allows 443 only and (b) allows TLS only you'd need either BOSH/WSS or raw XMPPS (XEP-0368).
[12:53:45] <Holger> BOSH/WSS vs. XMPPS is of course more about supporting different clients.
[12:53:46] <ZHOSKA> Thanks! I look at these sites, but I would like to see something similar to the list of changes (what has changed and how, what is the advantage and what these changes saved us from)
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[12:54:12] <Licaon_Kter> ZHOSKA: eh, use a HTML comparison site and feed it the two link
[12:54:18] <Licaon_Kter> ZHOSKA: eh, use a HTML comparison site and feed it the two links :)
[12:54:50] <Manis> > BOSH/WSS vs. XMPPS is of course more about supporting different clients.
I don't know the details but would imagine that "classic" clients use XMPPS while web clients use BOSH/WSS. Or is this too simplistic?
If I were to support XMPP over 443 I would probably also want to run a web site on the same port.
[12:55:58] <Holger> Manis, right, BOSH/WSS is mostly used by web clients (as a browser cannot do raw TCP in JavaScript), whereas mobile clients typically support XMPPS.
[12:56:40] <Holger> Manis, there _are_ solutions for multiplexing stuff on a single IP address/port but it's a bit meh.
[12:57:18] <Holger> Manis, for a family & friends server it might not be worth the hassle, as those restrictive firewalls are still somewhat of a corner case, thankfully.
[12:57:59] <Manis> Holger, thank you for the explanations. So I will stay with the designated ports for now. Hacking with 443 will maybe be something to think about when I can have IPv6 and can assign multiple IPs to XMPP.
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[12:58:40] <Holger> ZHOSKA, I'm not really into OMEMO development but from the fragments I do know, I don't think there's user-visible changes.  It's mostly about cleaner protocol and robustness against weird corner case issues.
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[12:59:16] <Holger> ZHOSKA, therefore I guess there might not be any "what's new?!" docs for end users.
[12:59:43] <ZHOSKA> So I wanted to find out about them, because kaidan clearly focuses on omemo-2
[13:00:19] <Holger> ZHOSKA, maybe ask the Kaidan devs? 🙂
[13:00:50] <Licaon_Kter> ZHOSKA: they also focused on MIX, did you get the tl;dr there too?
[13:01:01] <Holger> ZHOSKA, I _guess_ the Kaidan implementation was just started later than the others, so they started with a newer spec revision.
[13:01:56] <Holger> ZHOSKA, out of curiosity, what platform are you using Kaidan on?
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[13:04:53] <ZHOSKA> tl;dr? what is this? my translater can not translate it
[13:06:40] <ZHOSKA> linux
[13:06:48] <Holger> ZHOSKA, a short summary of something.  The actual meaning is "too long; didn't read [the full explanation of something]":
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl%3Bdr
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[13:09:11] <ZHOSKA> thanks
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[14:19:42] <Manis> Please apologise if this is the wrong place for this question. I'm currently studying the upstream init script to check if capabilities support could be added (possibly by making the script OpenRC compatible. While checking different distros I noticed that Gentoo and Alpine Linux's OpenRC scripts don't drop privileges to ejabberd and leave that to ejabberdctl. The other distros I checked did su(1) in the init script.
[14:19:52] <Manis> Which is the preferred way?
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[14:21:49] <Manis> If setuid in ejabberdctl is the preferred way maybe the CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE capability could also be set in ejabberdctl.
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[14:25:22] <Holger> I forgot (since systemd makes this so easy): Is there a way for root to set capabilities on the fly at all?
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[14:26:10] <Holger> At least in the past, I think the only way was setting capabilities on a binary file (using `setcap(8)`).  But obviously systemd has _some_ way to do this on the fly …
[14:26:35] <Manis> OpenRC can set capabilities by itself, for sysvinit one should be able to use capsh.
[14:26:56] <Holger> Or just drop the capability idea altogether and create a DNAT rule using iptables or whatever.
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[14:27:04] <Manis> Holger, systemd uses ambient capabilities. These can be configured and inherited at runtime.
[14:27:22] <Holger> I see.
[14:27:33] <Manis> Last time I tried to set up DNAT is didn't work realiably at all.
[14:28:03] <Holger> Huh?  I use that all day long for various services in production.
[14:28:40] <Manis> It could be just me being incapable of using nftables properly.
[14:28:53] <Holger> Ok I'm old and still use iptables 🙂
[14:28:57] <Holger> Whatever.
[14:29:04] <Manis> My last try with plain shell was this: `capsh --caps='cap_net_bind_service+eip cap_setuid,cap_setgid,cap_setpcap+ep' --user=ejabberd --addamb='cap_net_bind_service' --shell=/bin/bash -- /usr/sbin/ejabberdctl start` (it kinda, sorta works, but sometimes produces some strange eacces Erlang errors.
[14:29:39] <Holger> As far as I'm concerned I'd do the setuid thing within the init system whenever possible.  So ejabberdctl itself doesn't run with unneded privs.
[14:29:46] <Manis> > Ok I'm old and still use iptables 🙂
In production I also (still) habe iptables everywhere. I kinda like the idea of nftables, but then whenever I tried to use it in reality I failed.
[14:30:19] <Manis> I'm wondering why ejabberdctl needs the capability so su(1) in the first place?
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[14:30:36] <Manis> Is this so people can run ejabberdctl maintenance commands as root?
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[14:30:55] <Holger> Mostly just to double-check ejabberd is never ever run with root privileges no matter how it's invoked I guess.
[14:31:44] <Manis> But if that's the case, a simple error message would've done the job too?
[14:31:46] <Holger> Otherwise you'd have admins go "oh let's do a quick 'sudo ejabberdctl $whatever'".
[14:32:19] <Licaon_Kter> Aren't we doing that always
[14:32:30] <Holger> Well I guess it's nicer if e.g. my last command just works.  E.g. when using `ejabberdctl` to communicate with ejabberd.
[14:32:37] <Licaon_Kter> I mean, who has time for `-u ejabberd`?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[14:33:04] <Holger> Yes I guess we could go "if $1 == start|stop then error message else just work" but meh.  What problem are we trying to solve right now? 🙂
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[14:34:00] <Manis> I was thinking about whether it would be worth the time to try to improve the upstream init script a bit and maybe, eventually, get distros other than Debian to use it.
[14:34:35] <Manis> (and of course maybe getting to learn something on the starting process of ejabberd, which seems a bit unorthodox to me).
[14:34:49] <Holger> Sounds good 🙂
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[14:35:54] <Holger> Yes that part is certainly unorthodox, due to the Erlang-ism that you have no good way to do the setuid thing within the daemon itself.
[14:37:07] <Manis> I'm also not really understanding the reason to use su(1) in the init script. Isn't start-stop-daemon pretty ubiquitous these days? (Or is this some BSD/RedHat compatibility leftovers?)
[14:37:28] <Holger> (Whereas other daemons can do initial startup things such as reading PEM files or opening privileged ports before dropping root privs or whatever.  Then again these things might be becoming a little outdated anyway.)
[14:38:16] <Manis> Why do you think reading files, then drop privileges is getting outdated?
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[14:38:43] <Holger> Not sure how uniquitous it is.  Whenever _I_ create init scripts I try to avoid depending on it for portability.  (Plus I think start-stop-daemon is about as terrible as it can get.)
[14:39:12] <Manis> Hmm, compared to `su - user -c "eeek"` everything is a delight.
[14:39:29] <Holger> I disagree 🙂
[14:39:37] <Holger> `su` does one thing and does it well.
[14:39:48] <Holger> start-stop-daemon does 20 things and nothing well.
[14:39:57] <Manis> Actually I find start-stop-daemon to be not too bad. In fact using it ejabberd could also be started using `ejabberdctl foreground` as is done by the systemd unit.
[14:40:33] <Holger> And then it's forked into the background before it even has a chance to show the admin any startup errors.
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[14:40:54] <Manis> su(1) is a pain because the interface is not standardised, it fails when the user does not have a login shell and interrupting processes feels unnatural because a single ^C doesn't work.
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[14:41:22] <Manis> > And then it's forked into the background before it even has a chance to show the admin any startup errors.
Isn't that the case with systemd and the current init script, too?
[14:41:35] <Manis> I've never seen any startup errors from ejabberd.
[14:41:41] <Holger> I totally agree about the non-standard part, yes.  (It does work without login shell depending on args and, yes meh, implementation.)
[14:41:51] <Manis> ^this
[14:42:04] <Manis> `-s /bin/sh` is hit or miss depending on the OS you're on.
[14:42:30] <Holger> > Isn't that the case with systemd and the current init script, too?
No.
[14:42:55] <Manis> uuuuuuhhh, oookay.
[14:43:25] <Holger> systemd keeps proper control over the process, which means it doesn't fork it into Nirvana and among other things grabs stdout/stderr just fine.
[14:43:48] <Holger> `systemctl status` or `journalctl -u ejabberd` will show any output just fine.
[14:44:11] <Manis> well, journalctl is cheating. `tail /var/log/ejabberd/error.log` does it, too 😀
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[14:44:30] <Holger> That file won't contain stdout/stderr output at all.
[14:44:35] <Holger> How's that cheating?
[14:44:59] <Holger> You can have systemd throw output into syslog if you prefer plain files, but that's quite unrelated to my point.
[14:45:33] <Manis> OK, I never used ejabberd with systemd. Is /var/log/ejabberd/* a thing when using systemd?
[14:45:55] <Holger> Yes ejabberd still keeps logging into those files just fine.
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[14:46:16] <Holger> My complaint would be that you can't easily stop if from doing so 🙂
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[14:46:25] <Holger> (Yet.)
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[14:48:12] <Manis> > How's that cheating?
My /var/log/ejabberd/ejabberd.ctl also contains all the output I get when I run `ejabberdctl foreground`.
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[14:49:04] <Holger> Ah ok that sounds better.  I'm just in rage w.r.t. start-stop-daemon in general because that's not what you get out of the box.
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[14:49:29] <Manis> So my interpretation is that the systemd unit uses foreground instead of start to capture log output? Stopping is done using `ejabberdctl stop` even with systemd, right?
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[14:50:51] <Holger> > `-s /bin/sh` is hit or miss depending on the OS you're on.
Yeah my hack looks like this:
https://github.com/processone/eturnal/blob/f2a31807dda47aedf93df0d09afcc846de29ffe6/scripts/eturnalctl#L152-L160
I _hate_ having to do so but personally just still prefer this over depending on start-stop-daemon.  (But I really dunno about it's ubiquitiousness, maybe it's better than I keep assuming.)
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[14:52:17] <Holger> > So my interpretation is that the systemd unit uses foreground instead of start to capture log output?
That's just one reason, systemd is generally optimized for running services in the foreground.  Avoids the traditional hacks for keeping track/controlling processes (PID files!!).
Stopping is done using `ejabberdctl stop` even with systemd, right?
[14:52:22] <Holger> > So my interpretation is that the systemd unit uses foreground instead of start to capture log output?
That's just one reason, systemd is generally optimized for running services in the foreground.  Avoids the traditional hacks for keeping track/controlling processes (PID files!!).
> Stopping is done using `ejabberdctl stop` even with systemd, right?
Yes.
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[14:53:15] <Holger> But you could just send a SIGTERM instead if you prefer.
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[14:55:19] <Manis> Does this work? Because getting ejabberd to stop when hitting ^C in `ejabberdctl foreground` does not work.
[14:55:42] Manis likes PID files.
[14:56:15] <Holger> The nice thing is that they sometimes contain a PID of an existing process! 🙂
[14:56:20] <Holger> Does what work?
[14:57:26] <Holger> Hitting `~C` _twice_ works for me.  That's an Erlang-ism.
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[14:57:57] <Holger> (I'm running `ejabberdctl` without root privs though.)
[14:58:08] <Manis> > The nice thing is that they sometimes contain a PID of an existing process! 🙂
Always `ps -p "$(cat pidfile)"` first 😀
[14:58:27] <Manis> > Hitting `~C` _twice_ works for me.  That's an Erlang-ism.
What is ~C?
[14:58:33] <Holger> ^C
[14:58:47] <Holger> `<Ctrl>`+`<c>`
[14:58:56] <Manis> Ah.
[14:59:12] <Manis> ```
# su - ejabberd
$ ejabberdctl foreground
-sh: 1: ejabberdctl: not found
```
Ah, love it :-)
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[14:59:27] <Manis> As if ejabberdctl wasn't made to be run as non-root
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[15:00:03] <Holger> You're saying it's `ejabberdctl`'s fault that it's not in your PATH?
[15:00:15] <Holger> Well, in `ejabberd`'s?
[15:00:21] <Manis> It's the ejabberd package's fault that ejabberdctl is installed in /usr/sbin.
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[15:00:31] <Holger> Ah.
[15:00:33] <Holger> Yeah.
[15:00:53] <Holger> I guess the distro intends only root to call that command indeed.
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[15:01:22] <Manis> Hmm, another su-ism. If I do run `/usr/sbin/ejabberdctl foreground` as `ejabberd`, ^C'ing it does work indeed (albeit with a non-clean shutdown if I grasp that right).
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[15:01:43] <Manis> If I run it as root and let it `su ejabberd`, ^C breaks.
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[15:02:44] <Manis> ^C makes su kill the login shell and then the erlang process is inherited by init and continues to run.
[15:02:49] <Holger> Yeah that's because there's another shell in between which is meh indeed.
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[15:03:18] <Manis> Hmm, would exec(1) help, maybe?
[15:03:21] <Holger> Hence that `exec` in my `eturnalctl` example up there.
[15:03:29] <Holger> Yeah.
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[15:04:25] <Manis> I meant, maybe add an exec in ejabberdctl's privilege dropping code.
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[15:04:52] <Holger> Yup.
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[15:07:46] <Manis> Uh, works, cool.
[15:08:00] <Manis> Sounds like a PR.
[15:08:24] <Manis> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd is the upstream repo, correct?
[15:09:02] <Holger> I seem to remember us having that at some point and having it removed, but `git log -S` seems to disagree.
[15:09:16] <Holger> I keep dreaming such things.
[15:09:22] <Holger> Yes that's the upstream repo.
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[15:12:07] <Manis> OK, I'll prepare a PR and then if someone remembers the reason to not have it, it can always not be merged.
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[15:14:58] <Holger> 👍️
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[15:50:31] <Manis> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/pull/4047
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[15:55:19] <Manis> "ProcessOne Contributor Agreement" WTF? Makes me want to close the PR again.
[15:55:56] <Holger> 🤷️
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[15:56:34] <Holger> Closing that is obviously just fine.
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[15:58:11] <friederike> brrrrrr, can I just say actual CLAs are annoying when the functionally similar Linux-style DCO (https://developercertificate.org/) does the same job with much less hassle. thanks
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[15:58:53] <Holger> Doesn't look like it does the same job to me.
[15:59:12] <raucao> looks like it does to me
[15:59:21] <raucao> friederike, thx for sharing!
[15:59:22] <Holger> Copyright transfer?
[15:59:46] <raucao> depending on your jurisdiction you cannot "transfer" your copyright. it's always about licensing
[16:00:24] <Holger> This is an entirely separate topic no?
[16:00:53] <raucao> oh wait, sry. i misread. the certificate of origin is only about the dev certifying that they wrote it or are allowed to submit it
[16:00:56] <raucao> my bad
[16:01:07] <raucao> not the same as granting permanent license over the same
[16:01:24] <raucao> not the same as granting permanent license for the work being submitted
[16:01:40] <friederike> it does, but under the same license
[16:01:49] <raucao> it doesn't say that at all in the document
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[16:02:55] <Manis> Frankly, I don't understand any of the language in the CLA. I am a programmer, not a lawyer. Take my contribution and do with it whatever the GPLv2+ allows.
[16:03:02] <Holger> ejabberd is open core, i.e. there's a closed version of it, so p1 is asking for (non-exclusive) copyright on contributions.  If you don't want that, don't contribute, or publish fork. 🤷️
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[16:04:42] <Manis> In any case I'd be surprised by that DocuSign thing being legally valid. Signing a document by typing your name on the keyboard, LOL?
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[16:05:34] <Holger> No idea.  I had to send a letter by snail mail back in the days and would've prefered the keyboard thing 😀️
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[16:09:32] <Zash> Only way to find out is to try it in court. GLHF.
[16:10:56] <Manis> Even that's going to be "difficult". Sometimes even courts don't agree with one another.
[16:11:36] <Holger> Let alone courts in different jurisdictions.
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[16:11:47] <Manis> eeek, yes.
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[16:12:27] <Licaon_Kter> _Your honour, the CLA was clearly signed by `whydoIneedanaccountAnyway7`, so it can be enforced_
[16:13:04] <Holger> 🙂
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[16:14:16] <Manis> > _Your honour, the CLA was clearly signed by `whydoIneedanaccountAnyway7`, so it can be enforced_
make my day
[16:14:19] <Manis> > _Your honour, the CLA was clearly signed by `whydoIneedanaccountAnyway7`, so it can be enforced_
made my day
[16:14:58] <Manis> I'll continue to work on my hybrid init script experiment and if it gets somewhere I'll maybe make a PR.
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[20:33:46] <meson> How does this translate to MariaDB correctly?
`ALTER TABLE vcard_search ADD PRIMARY KEY (server_host, lusername);`
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[20:34:39] <meson> The issue I want to solve is: `<<"Unknown column 'server_host' in 'where clause'">>`
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[20:36:25] <Manis> On first glance this sounds like a mixture of old and new schema.
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[20:37:26] <Manis> cf. https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/sql/mysql.sql and https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/sql/mysql.new.sql
[20:37:26] <meson> Yeah, I recently upgraded and this time I compiled with --enable-new-schema and also added the option `new_sql_schema: true` to the config
[20:37:38] <Manis> aha!
[20:38:06] <Manis> Assuming you kept your database I'd assume you need to run https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/sql/mysql.old-to-new.sql first.
[20:38:18] <Manis> As always: MAKE A BACKUP FIRST :-)
[20:38:45] <Manis> (I don't run ejabberd with MySQL so I can't say for sure, I'm only guessing)
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[20:58:28] <meson> > As always: MAKE A BACKUP FIRST :-)
Sure :)
Somehow I get some errors, like "multiple keys" or "duplicate column" when trying to upgrade. I will check tomorrow again.
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