Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Monday, November 6, 2023< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[00:22:16] <Frank> Well, both it seems. This  https://matrix.org/blog/2023/07/a-giant-leap-with-mls/ reads like they're hiding their commercial interests in plain sight - but it explains the funding. I wonder if Matrix' problems with MLS would be the same with XMPP?
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[05:56:21] <Licaon_Kter> Frank: it's not about commercial part, but about the tech part, interop
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[06:13:13] <agh> > Just listened to a CCC podcast on the standardization of MLS, an e2e-encryption protocol. I had never heard of it before but it sounds like a good thing especially since it's standardized. Apparently there are no client implementations yet, but I'm wondering whether the XMPP community is looking at MLS?
Link please?
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[06:49:05] <Frank> agh: https://chaosradio.de/cr284-dicke-bretter-diesmal-ueber-ende-zu-ende-verschluesselung-und-das-protokoll-messaging-layer-security
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[06:49:31] <Emru> Would it allow interoperability between XMPP and Matrix clients?
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[06:50:47] <Frank> Licaon_Kter: I was just wondering how they could afford to put that many resources into MLS development. But MLS seems to be all about interop, non?
[06:51:55] <Licaon_Kter> Emru:
> Would it allow interoperability between XMPP and Matrix clients?
That's the goal imho, then again, is that aligned with matrixs' sell-to-vcs goals?
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[06:52:49] <Licaon_Kter> Frank: funded by VCs, sold the company bit by bit, but they are past that, they're now in the hole money wise
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[06:54:13] <Licaon_Kter> https://upload.convorb.im/7c370453f738f2c0c995eaee643e5e0aba76aeb0/A3dRsjxYEjfxJxzAcijKYTXOKNMG5uA3IQo9poXa/I5fOvYTQTfGwynVJkwrNvA.jpg
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[06:57:34] <Emru> >Many large deployments go live without contributing
Sun is raising on the east and going down on the west
It's dark at night
Water is wet
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[07:18:32] <Licaon_Kter> _Winter is not like summer_
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[07:22:41] <Molnija Bjornsson> it is not
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[08:24:38] <kapad> » Sun is raising on the east and going down on the west
like always it depends on which side of the moon the observer is...
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[09:54:24] <agh> Frank, thanks.
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[13:49:55] <web3> Hello, tell me, can I make the Ejabberd server require the client to establish a secure connection (via TLS), and otherwise not establish a connection with it (if the client does not support encryption).  I'm talking about the fact that absolutely any connection to the server must be encrypted (messages, calls, file transfers, ...)
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[13:53:34] <prefiks> you can force client to use tls with `starttls_required: true` option in listener for c2s (usually port 5222), and making sure you don't have other c2s listener without encryption
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[13:55:19] <savagepeanut> Are there any clients that connect without TLS without at least a warning?
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[13:58:48] <web3> > Are there any clients that connect without TLS without at least a warning?
I don’t know if such clients exist, but unfortunately, I am sure that such a warning will not confuse any of the people who will connect to my server.
[13:59:19] <web3> So I want to completely close this possibility
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[14:05:15] <web3> Tell me, why do you need 2 listener c2s on ports 5222 and 5223?  As I understand it, port 5223 serves as a fallback path if it is impossible to create a TLS connection?
[14:05:41] <prefiks> usually 5223 only supports tls connections
[14:05:48] <prefiks> do you have tls: true in it?
[14:05:57] <prefiks> if so it only works with tls
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[14:08:07] <web3>     port: 5222
    ip: "::"
    module: ejabberd_c2s
    max_stanza_size: 262144
    shaper: c2s_shaper
    access: c2s
    starttls_required: true
    protocol_options: 'TLS_OPTIONS'
  -
    port: 5223
    ip: "::"
    module: ejabberd_c2s
    max_stanza_size: 262144
    shaper: c2s_shaper
    access: c2s
    tls: true
    protocol_options: 'TLS_OPTIONS'
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[14:08:38] <prefiks> yes, so with that client would need to use tls from start when connecting to 5223
[14:08:46] <prefiks> or use starttls on 5222
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[14:09:27] <prefiks> server will not enable authorization step on 5222 without starttls
[14:10:36] <web3> And why do you need to duplicate the c2s module on 2 ports at once?
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[14:11:27] <Licaon_Kter> web3: different things...
[14:12:09] <prefiks> one is in plain text initially, and then you can trigger encryption on in, second one need to be encrypted from start
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[14:23:08] <web3> > one is in plain text initially, and then you can trigger encryption on in, second one need to be encrypted from start
You sent me the starttls_required: true option, I noticed it on port 5222. As far as I understand, this port does not allow you to create an unencrypted connection and I can only leave it.
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[14:37:32] <savagepeanut> >> Are there any clients that connect without TLS without at least a warning?
> I don’t know if such clients exist, but unfortunately, I am sure that such a warning will not confuse any of the people who will connect to my server.
Gajim displays a warning similar to a browser
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[15:09:38] <web3> Tell me, can the starttls_required option be added to any listener?
[15:09:59] <prefiks> only to those that have starttls: true
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[15:10:50] <prefiks> if they have tls: true, they will need tls at connect time, and don't need starttls/starttls_requitred
[15:13:03] <web3> > if they have tls: true, they will need tls at connect time, and don't need starttls/starttls_requitred
Okay, it turns out that if the client already has a secure connection, it simply won't be able to connect to any of the services without TLS (I enabled tls: true for all listeners except 5222)
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[18:41:00] schäfchen726 leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[18:49:23] qy leaves the room
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[19:25:22] joeDoe leaves the room
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[20:06:23] chrys leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[21:03:41] robert_mobil leaves the room
[21:04:25] schäfchen726 leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[21:04:41] Sando joins the room
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[21:05:01] p42ity leaves the room: Disconnected: Hibernating too long
[21:05:22] gooya leaves the room
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