ejabberd - Friday, December 6, 2024

[03:32:15] <uira> Thank Licaon_Kter,solved using http upload external. Dunno how to modify ejabberd's internal http upload module :D
> make put_url better :))
Actually my host already a subdomain..
> Eg. `upload.@HOST@` instead of....

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[11:10:49] <marko.cupac> zoidberg: https://oblak.mimar.rs/s/PdncTxKpRyQmpWi

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[11:11:36] <zoidberg> ?

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[11:11:41] <zoidberg> Ahh

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[11:11:48] <marko.cupac> That error regarding mod_mam and mysql timeout.

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[11:12:03] <marko.cupac> You instructed me to post exact error message.

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[11:12:13] <zoidberg> Sure sure.
[11:12:18] <zoidberg> Had forgot it

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[11:12:44] <marko.cupac> Took me some time 😀

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[11:21:02] <zoidberg> Yep, can see that something is going wrong there, but you probably gonna need with the higher level ones to pinpoint whats going on there.

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[11:22:13] <zoidberg> you say you are on ejabberd 23.10 right?
[11:22:27] <zoidberg> Ah now on 24.10

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[11:23:00] <zoidberg> When upgrading

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[11:23:11] <zoidberg> Did you like follow the instructions

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[11:23:33] <zoidberg> For database changes and this sort of stuff and so on?

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[11:24:35] <zoidberg> I mean its a big jump, i think there was at least a couple of changes in the database, and also in configs.

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[11:27:18] <Licaon_Kter> marko.cupac: you've followed
https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/upgrade/#specific-version-upgrade-notes ? Or you've set https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/toplevel/#update_sql_schema ?

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[11:29:46] <marko.cupac> I did set update sql schema to true

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[11:30:55] <marko.cupac> It appears the error occured only once after upgrade, now it starts fine. I'll monitor the situation.

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[11:41:14] <marko.cupac> If one neglected database upgrades and has no idea on which version is database at the moment and where to start schema upgrades, is there a way to see which is current schema version? Asking for a friend 😜

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[11:49:00] <zoidberg> I would tell your "friend" wink wink to pray for the update_sql_schema to fix everything by itself 😃

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[11:50:21] <zoidberg> BTW best thing that happened to ejabberd ever period! congrats to the one who had that idea.

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[12:49:43] <Holger> Speaking of which, do people have experience with auto-upgrades of the SQLite schema? Does it seem to work fine?

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[12:50:21] <Holger> If so, maybe we should re-consider making SQLite the default (and deprecating Mnesia)?

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[12:58:41] <Licaon_Kter> 5 years later??

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[13:00:04] <Holger> Getting something done within 5 years would be a great success in our universe, no?

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[13:00:47] <Kris> > Getting something done within 5 years would be a great success in our universe, no?
😂

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[13:01:52] <Licaon_Kter> Damn, true

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[13:21:29] <Kirill> Holger, i think this is the right place to continue that topic

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[13:23:21] <Kirill> Holger, also, making default SQLite means that it won't work out of the box in cluster setup. But it isn't the only things which doesn't work in cluster out of the box, another one which I know is HTTP upload

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[13:24:42] <Holger> Kirill, true. I think the former part is okay, clustering storage just isn't something that you can make work with any kind of "default setup".

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[13:25:42] <Holger> The latter annoys me as well, my fault + fixing _part_ of the issue is on my to-do list since forever but never seem to get there.

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[13:28:03] <Holger> The part I'd like to fix is that the client should be able to HTTP-upload to a different node than currently XMPP-connected to; which currently only works with the `external_secret` thingy.  Allowing the download from multiple nodes will obviously still have to be set up by the admin.  We could allow for stuffing the uploads into SQL, so the clustering SQL would solve that as well …
[13:28:12] <Kirill> Holger, I use a kind of workaround:
```
  mod_http_upload:
    put_url: https://upload-IDX.@HOST@/xmpp/upload
```

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[13:28:30] <Holger> Yeah.

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[13:31:24] <Kirill> Unfortently, here no an easy way to use sqlite which works with cluster. And running PostgreSQL as master-master... let say it requires some managment time to time

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[13:31:56] <Holger> Yup. As I said in the Dino channel, I'm not aware of a trivial black-box solution.

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[13:32:27] <Holger> There's also Galera and another thing for My/Maria but no idea which ends up being less work.

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[13:33:55] <Kirill> from another hand... won't it make life easy if someone introduce a quota for last messages in MAM?
[13:34:10] <Kirill> let say it keep synced last 20k messages per user.

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[13:35:35] <Holger> Comes up every now and then but really not often. I don't need that personally so I'm not too motivated myself.

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[13:36:09] <Holger> Would require a bit of thought to avoid (re-)counting your messages on each and and every message you send/receive …

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[13:37:30] <Kirill> but it migth be a nice trade off, isn't it?

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[13:38:01] <Holger> In practice, on 'typical' IM servers, file uploads will take up magnitudes more of space. The only point I'd see would be DoS prevention.

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[13:43:22] <Kirill> I mean as trade off to use it as cluster without maste-master SQL DB

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[13:53:23] <Holger> Oh misunderstood then sorry.

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[13:58:42] <Holger> Well the size of the entire MAM table can already be limited by running `ejabberdctl delete_old_mam_messages` with appropriate values. You may or may not prefer per-user quotas but either way if you ask _me_ all this is beating a dead horse. As I said it's (ab)using Mnesia for a purpose it's not designed for, and esp. with clustering you will run into breakage either way, earlier and later. (And recovering MAM replication from split brain really requires Erlang knowledge.)

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[13:59:48] <Holger> So while I can imagine someone really motivated to somehow make Microsoft Notepad usable for a Vim user might have some success if he puts lots of love into it, I'm not that someone and will just tell you to install Vim, sorry 🙂

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[14:04:10] <Holger> Kirill: Actually one of my very first ejabberd projects ten years ago was implementing my own mod_mam_mnesia from scratch that supported table fragmentation to avoid the 2G limit 😃 Kinda worked but I gave up on it after a few table corruptions.
[14:04:28] <Holger> (No idea whether the code is still somewhere on GitHub …)
[14:05:00] <Kirill> I haven't touched jabber world for more than decade I think, and I supprise that old issues is still here 🙂

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[14:10:30] <Holger> WhatsApp has a magic Dets replacement that actually _does_ turn Mnesia into SQL but they didn't publish it.

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[14:11:16] <Holger> There's one out two other alternatives on GitHub but I don't think they're production-ready.

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[14:13:00] <Holger> I'd be more than happy if they were of course, because `mnesia:write(DataStructure)` is obviously way more convenient than talking SQL …

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[14:34:24] <Kirill> well, I think I had a way to reproduce MAM desync. Simple restart ejabberd on both machines at the same time.

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[15:23:25] <Holger> Kirill: Ah yes that should be avoided (with Mnesia specifically but also with most other cluster techs).

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[15:31:10] <zeank> Klarna has a storage backend for Mnesia that’s using LevelDB - not sure either if that’s public but I think so

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[15:32:54] <Holger> zeank: Yes I think so too, but isn't LevelDB the "it's awesome but you must be prepared for corruption anytime" thing?

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[15:34:10] <Holger> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LevelDB#Bugs_and_reliability
[15:34:23] <zeank> You’re asking the wrong one here. But since they use to store basically all their mission critical data, I’d be surprised to hear if it were that unreliable. At least I haven’t heard anything bad while I’ve been working there.

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[15:35:18] <zeank> https://github.com/klarna/mnesia_eleveldb

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[15:35:28] <Holger> Ok well those reports may be outdated of course. In the past I've heard people using LevelDB for live data but with snapshots to be able to restore in case of corruption.

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[15:36:34] <Kirill> Holger, as far as I recall Chrome uses leveldb for cookeis and a lot of things.

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[15:36:47] <Holger> Yup.

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[15:37:24] <Holger> Or at least it was that way, the README on https://github.com/google/leveldb says "very limited maintenance"?

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[15:38:27] <zeank> Btw, have you heard of mria? It’s a replacement used in EMQx which has a more sophisticated distribution mechanism (there’s an idea of satellite nodes…)

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[15:39:39] <zeank> Hm yeah, now that I read all this, I think Klarna is actually moving to Postgress
[15:39:49] <zeank> Or did move already

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[15:41:12] <Holger> Heard mria mentioned on erlangforums.com or smth but hadn't looked at it. But I've seen the EMQx people doing nice things before :-)

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[15:41:49] <Holger> https://github.com/emqx/mria

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[15:41:54] <Holger> Nice picture, I'll buy it.
[15:42:28] <zeank> Lol

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[15:42:50] <zeank> I always wondered if there isn’t a use case in ejabberd for it

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[16:02:11] <marko.cupac> Does mam work with omemo?

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[16:03:10] <Licaon_Kter> marko.cupac: with everything, yes

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[16:04:36] <marko.cupac> So if I don't backup conversations profile (including chat history), but do backup omemo keys, I can set up new conversation client, restore keys, pull history from mam, and I will see decrypted text and images?

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[16:08:05] <Holger> Nope, OMEMO messages can only be decrypted once.

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[16:08:19] <Holger> Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS).

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[16:08:35] <marko.cupac> Thought so, also stated on https://conversations.im/omemo/
[16:08:38] <Holger> I do PGP (or unencrypted) for that reason.

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[16:09:27] <Holger> But MAM does work with OMEMO in the sense that it allows for proper multi-device sync.

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[16:09:32] <marko.cupac> Which means, as all users on my server use omemo, mam makes no sense. I guess I'll disable it.

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[16:10:08] <marko.cupac> Ah, so it has some sense to leave it on.

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[16:12:32] <Holger> Absolutely :-)

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[16:28:29] <Licaon_Kter> marko.cupac: MAM is about getting the message, encrypted or not does not matter

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[16:29:11] <marko.cupac> Cool, thx.

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