ejabberd - Friday, December 20, 2024

[05:06:43] <zoidberg> A little typo here: https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-24-12/#apiv3 "Did you upgrade ejabberd, and that includes many changes? Compile and intall it, then restart ejabberd completely".
[05:07:03] <zoidberg> "intall"

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[05:10:42] <zoidberg> evacuate_kindly 🟤 (funniest command ever)😁️

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[08:36:48] <prefiks> ups, indeed, i copied description for db_type option from other command, and didn't update type it supports...

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[09:30:36] <zoidberg> > The documentation at https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/modules/?h=mod_auth_fast#mod_auth_fast is a little bit confusing. In the description `token_lifetime` is described but in the code example `token_timeout` is used. So what is the correct option for that module?
I tried with token_timeout, and it complained, so the correct syntax must be token_lifetime.
[09:31:32] <prefiks> ah, indded, i renamed that option, but forgot to change it here...
[09:31:43] <prefiks> token_lifetime is indded correct name

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[09:50:08] <raver> > token_lifetime is indded correct name
👍

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[10:08:01] <MattJ> FAST in ejabberd is so exciting 🙂

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[10:09:25] <zoidberg> how can we check if this stuff is working?

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[10:10:52] <prefiks> conversations client has support for this (and i used it for tests)
[10:11:15] <prefiks> in logs you should get info about using HT-SHA256-* auth method when this is used

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[10:12:27] <zoidberg> thx, let me see if i can see any of it. just to be sure you guys are not just making these things up

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[10:16:30] <zoidberg> Authenticating with SASL_2/HT-SHA-256-EXPR

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[10:19:13] <badlop> zoidberg: thanks, typo fixed in the release notes

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[10:21:17] <badlop> and docs site is updated https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/modules/#mod_auth_fast

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[10:32:39] <raver> > and docs site is updated https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/modules/#mod_auth_fast
❤️
[10:33:14] <raver> Will auth_fast Support SQL and/or redis in the future? 🙃
[10:33:47] <prefiks> i have sql backend in progress
[10:33:57] <raver> awesome
[10:34:00] <Kris> > i have sql backend in progress
❤️

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[12:24:17] <raver> > i have sql backend in progress
❤️

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[14:13:55] <rom1dep> congrats for the release
[14:14:58] <Licaon_Kter> Do better next time, amirite?

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[14:16:34] <rom1dep> if I may suggest one thing, in the blog post, "Use non-standard STUN port", it might be wise to mention that new ports would require to be opened to accommodate any change there

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[14:17:44] <rom1dep> looking at the commits, I'm curious about the roll-back of the matrix fixes, is it worse than the non-functional thing that came before it?

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[14:31:05] <Holger> rom1dep,
> it might be wise to mention that new ports would require to be opened to accommodate any change there
You mean in case there's a packet filter / firewall?
Note that this is just a change in the example config file, such changes will usually not be applied blindly during upgrades of existing systems. If the admin consciously applies that change I'd hope any firewall changes would be obvious but yes you never know.

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[18:12:14] <mightyBroccoli> On the note of mod_auth_fast my monal client complains when I activate the module. Stating that a MITM via simple service discovery protocol is present causing the connection to be aborted.

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[19:09:25] <Holger> Presumably the problem is that the FAST mechanism isn't part of the SSDP hash.

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[19:25:21] <rom1dep> > On the note of mod_auth_fast my monal client complains when I activate the module. Stating that a MITM via simple service discovery protocol is present causing the connection to be aborted.
has this been reproduced? I cannot test it and would like to know whether to disable the feature.
[19:25:52] <rom1dep> on a similar tone, can bidi be safely re-enabled now?

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[19:37:43] <mightyBroccoli> > has this been reproduced? I cannot test it and would like to know whether to disable the feature.
Yes I have a couple of users complaining from the little time I had the module active.
I can also reliably reproduce the issue with the prod and the test system.

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[19:48:14] <Kris> > on a similar tone, can bidi be safely re-enabled now?
sadly no, the fix didn't make it into 24.12

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[20:02:49] <rom1dep> hate me for saying it or not, but such things shouldn't make it to final releases :(

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[20:18:50] <Holger> The Quality Assurance team should be fired!

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[20:20:02] <Holger> rom1dep: Yes the bugs are annoying but it's a free 'community release', resources are limited and so on.

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[20:21:19] <rom1dep> I would tend to think about the process before the people here
[20:21:39] <rom1dep> there's no "beta" branch/release, AFAICT

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[20:22:26] <rom1dep> there is apparently close to zero real-world exposure of what's meant to become a tagged release before it becomes one

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[20:32:46] <mightyBroccoli> It’s a community release that’s the point at least to a degree.
The business version benefits from the community testing I would assume.
So in a sense we are the real world exposure so big corpo hasnt have to 😉

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[20:45:28] <rom1dep> It can probably be true at the same time that the community version serves to stabilize the business version, and that the community version can be more stable (which by extend benefits the business edition even more)
[20:45:44] <rom1dep> 🙂

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[21:17:58] <Holger> > It’s a community release that’s the point at least to a degree.
> The business version benefits from the community testing I would assume.
> So in a sense we are the real world exposure so big corpo hasnt have to 😉
Indeed: „While we put a huge development effort to have a product that is on the edge of innovation with ejabberd community version, we are requested to provide a stable version with long term commitment and high level of quality, testing, audit, etc.“
https://docs.ejabberd.im/ejabberd-faq/
😃

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[21:19:22] <rom1dep> > looking at the commits, I'm curious about the roll-back of the matrix fixes, is it worse than the non-functional thing that came before it?
answering my own question, messages seem to be only going from matrix → XMPP one-way with the most recent code, so pretty much as it was before :)
[21:20:09] <Holger> I think that was the reasoning for the YY.MM versioning theme, i.e. to imply it's just a tag of the development branch at some point in time.

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[21:21:26] <rom1dep> Holger: many projects do time-base versioning, most of them… unlike here

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[21:23:25] <Holger> rom1dep: I think our community is just too small to provide serious testing of beta/RC tags. I mean all binary packages are built for each and every commit, anyone is free to test them and provide feedback. A few admins do. You could do the same 🙂 But we won't end up competing with the QA level of Canonical or whatever.

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[21:25:37] <Holger> And my impression is that most releases are fine. It's annoying that the BIDI issue survived a second release but I don't really remember something like that in the past. FAST was "release early", unlike BIDI it's not enabled by default, and the issue is triggered when using Monal by a combination of two new features.

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[21:26:21] <rom1dep> There could be rules such as "when the develop branch is deemed feature-complete to warrant a new release, a release date of the form YY.MM is decided. This release is to be published on the second Monday of the month. Prior to that, the develop branch enters "freeze" mode two weeks prior, at what point a YY.MM-beta tag is cut, and only stabilization and bugfix changes are permitted to be included in the release"

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[21:27:19] <Holger> Sure, my point is that such a process doesn't magically yield anyone testing the frozen code.

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[21:27:45] <Holger> I mean anyone above those doing that already.

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[21:27:53] <rom1dep> the main difference is the signaling: people keen on beta-testing get a heads-up that there's something about to be released and their help filing bugs would be appreciated (even though 2 weeks is damn short)

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[21:28:38] <rom1dep> it's better than the current situation where pretty much everyone not hired by P1 driectly stumbles upon the new tag on GH

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[21:29:01] <Holger> Yes. If my impression of our community is wrong and there's actually a hidden audience keen on beta-testing then you're right.

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[21:29:49] <Holger> > it's better than the current situation where pretty much everyone not hired by P1 driectly stumbles upon the new tag on GH
There's a few people outside p1 running code between releases already.

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[21:30:48] <rom1dep> > Yes. If my impression of our community is wrong and there's actually a hidden audience keen on beta-testing then you're right.
I'm not trying to be a smartass and playing "whose right or wrong" here, my point practically boils down to "some heads-up for testers is better to none at all"

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[21:31:07] <rom1dep> > > it's better than the current situation where pretty much everyone not hired by P1 driectly stumbles upon the new tag on GH
>
> There's a few people outside p1 running code between releases already.
and I'm being one of them
[21:31:52] <Holger> So then you and me and Licaon_Kter failed this time, let's fire us.

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[21:32:16] <rom1dep> and I'm very sympathetic to all that's being done here, so again, excuse my tone if it comes up as agressive or unconstructive

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[21:33:25] <Holger> Okay and I keep ignoring there's Matrix code, if you take that into account then yes you have another point 😃 Just don't use that and install Slidge instead.

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[21:34:32] <Holger> Oh and while at it, disable mod_scram_update 😂
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[21:35:42] <rom1dep> Holger: don't you think that having beta releases would be better than not, simply for the sake of you, Licaon_Kter, and myself (but probably a few others) testing the same codeabse at the same time in preparation for something we know is going to reach a much wider audience shortly after?

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[21:36:31] <rom1dep> seems like low-effort high-reward to me, but maybe I'm the crazy one here :) (I won't dispute that ^^)

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[21:40:16] <Holger> rom1dep: If it's just about a tag + freeze then it's probably low-effort indeed. I see no downside so that would be fine with me. Just gave my reasoning for assuming no significant reward.
[21:40:55] <Holger> Basically was disagreeing with "hey guys you're getting it wrong, there's an obvious way to improve things".

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[21:41:09] <rom1dep> The implied message that comes alongside "hey folks, here's a beta tag, come and test, because that's meaningful to do"

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[21:41:24] <Holger> Understood that 🙂
[21:41:41] <rom1dep> The implied message that comes alongside "hey folks, here's a beta tag, come and test, because that's meaningful to do so"

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[21:42:12] <Holger> And I have no say anyway, better repeat the suggestion when p1 people are listening 🙂
[21:42:23] <rom1dep> > Basically was disagreeing with "hey guys you're getting it wrong, there's an obvious way to improve things".
sorry if it came that way

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[21:48:51] <rom1dep> and again, just to have the record straight, when I was hinting that this is the second release in a row that has some problems, that's not to diminish the work, capabilities, or well-meaning of the people behind. As soon as the bus-factor becomes larger than one, I think "the process" matters at least as much.
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