ejabberd - Wednesday, August 13, 2025

[08:14:55] <Neustradamus> Following the official Matrix CVE announcement: https://matrix.org/blog/2025/08/security-release/
A new ejabberd release build is planned with recent Matrix related commits?

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[08:16:38] <Holger> The cool thing with Matrix is that the monolithic spec avoids fragmentation.

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[08:40:38] <Adrien> > Following the official Matrix CVE announcement: https://matrix.org/blog/2025/08/security-release/
>
> A new ejabberd release build is planned with recent Matrix related commits?
"The following implementations are releasing fixes shortly as part of this coordinated update: ejabberd" => Yep.

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[08:43:34] <badlop> the documentation in mod_matrix_gw.erl could mention what protocols and their version it implements

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[10:05:40] <erebion> > The cool thing with Matrix is that the monolithic spec avoids fragmentation.
But a really uncool thing is having to upgrade EVERY room everytime a security issue is found.
[10:06:00] <erebion> This was the 2nd time and I'm pretty sure it will happen a 3rd time.
[10:06:10] <erebion> Rooms just become more and more over time.
[10:06:21] <erebion> Just yesterday I had to upgrde 400 of them. :/

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[12:29:42] <Holger> erebion: Tried to be sarcastic, just in case that wasn't obvious.

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[12:30:10] <erebion> I did not see an "/s", how would I know for sure? /s

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[12:31:09] <Holger> They said they gotta start from scratch because XMPP's modularity kills interop. I can join rooms on servers last updated before Matrix was invented just fine.

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[12:55:16] <erebion> Yeah, that's why I'm looking forward to Matrix room persistence in ejabberd, that'll be helpful for the few Matrix rooms until I've completely got rid of it.

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[12:56:04] <erebion> Also, I'm admin for a Matrix server with 3.7k users and many rooms and considering adding ejabberd at some point, so that people can choose what they prefer.

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[12:57:38] <erebion> Although the biggest blocker for me getting rid of my Matrix server and replacing it with ejabberd is simply the lack of Matrix encryption support, blocking me from some rooms and making me unable to migrate over direct messages by inviting myself with the account on ejabberd. 🤔

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[17:42:00] <marko.cupac> > Also, I'm admin for a Matrix server with 3.7k users
Cool, I thought total number of matrix users netwide is in that ballpark 😀

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[18:27:39] <Kris> they didn't specify "active" 😎
[18:28:16] <moparisthebest> > The cool thing with Matrix is that the monolithic spec avoids fragmentation.
😂
[18:28:22] <moparisthebest> > The cool thing with Matrix is that the monolithic spec avoids fragmentation.
🎯

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[19:08:56] <Licaon_Kter> The irony of me seeing in Conversations quotes with emojis from Cheo by you reacting to a "fragmentation" joke.

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[19:28:05] <savagepeanut> Text formatting ad adjacent will always be controversial
[19:29:00] <savagepeanut> (Matrix doesn't fix this either, because even within element's own clients they display HTML formatted text differently sometimes)

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[19:47:45] <rom1dep> > The irony of me seeing in Conversations quotes with emojis from Cheo by you reacting to a "fragmentation" joke.
Off topic but, wait, doesn't cheogram support reactions the same way as Conversations, of which it is a fork?

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[19:48:13] <zoidberg> No
[19:48:23] <zoidberg> There is a war going on
[19:48:34] <zoidberg> To fall back or to not fall back
[19:48:39] <savagepeanut> Cheogram sends a fallback for reactions. Conversations chooses to show the fallback instead of the reaction, because the fallback is controversial

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[19:49:04] <savagepeanut> >To fall back or to not fall back
😭

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[19:51:31] <rom1dep> What's controversial there?

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[19:52:15] <rom1dep> What motivated showing the fallback in the presence of a reaction?
[19:52:16] <savagepeanut> The fallback can seriously clutter public chats

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[19:56:35] <savagepeanut> Solidarity with clients that don't support reactions, I guess

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[20:01:31] <rom1dep> > Solidarity with clients that don't support reactions, I guess
That is fine, but why would the reactions-compatible receiving client choose to display the fallback and not just the reaction?

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[20:15:07] <Holger> rom1dep: To avoid being tricked by a malicious fallback that's different from the reaction.

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[20:15:57] <Holger> The usual issue with receiving multiple representations of a given content.

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[20:18:51] <rom1dep> Not sure I get it. If the sender has malicious intents, that's probably not the most effective and reliable way to deceive. I'm not sure what exactly the client thinks it is solving there

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[20:20:43] <Licaon_Kter> rom1dep: maybe browse jdev or smth
[20:21:17] <rom1dep> Yeah, sorry for fanning old flames

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[20:57:24] <Holger> rom1dep, e.g. deniability attacks, I react to your proposal with 👍 and "I strongly object" as fallback.

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[20:58:32] <Holger> You go ahead, fail, I prove to our boss that I told you so, you're fired.
[20:58:45] <Holger> Or whatever.

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[21:18:57] <thundergreen> Holger: yo mate how are u ? Long time no hear

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[21:24:12] <rom1dep> > rom1dep, e.g. deniability attacks, I react to your proposal with 👍 and "I strongly object" as fallback.
I get that, but as I said, if the intention is to mislead, there are probably a hundred more direct and less technically involving ways to do it,
If it comes to that, each party would reveal what their client shows and the deceiver would be uncovered (this is self incriminating)

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[21:48:49] <Holger> rom1dep: Not sure I agree with "there's worse scenarios" being a strong argument when wheiing that trade-off. But I don't have a strong opinion here, just answered the question what the client is trying to solve. If that was obvious, ignore me.

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[21:49:24] <Holger> thundergreen: 👋
[21:49:32] <Holger> Vacation! So all is fine.

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[21:50:11] <Holger> Until next Monday. Then I'm back to all is terrible.
[21:50:25] <Holger> Hope you're doing well!

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[22:01:19] <rom1dep> > rom1dep: Not sure I agree with "there's worse scenarios" being a strong argument when wheiing that trade-off. But I don't have a strong opinion here, just answered the question what the client is trying to solve. If that was obvious, ignore me.
no, thanks for answering, and sorry if it came across as dismissive. I think I'm building the "strong" opinion that Conversation's approach is sacrificing a lot on the user-experience side, all to poorly protect against a quite extreme scenario that has little practical impact and chances of success in a real setting
(And I mean "poorly", because the fallback content could be ever so slightly edited as to change the meaning of the reacted-upon message and I doubt Conversations does anything about it anyways).
I suppose it would be feasible to compare the fallback message against the content of the reacted-upon message to vouch for its autenticity, but if the competent (which I'm not) developers chose not to do it, there must be reasons.

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[22:13:22] <jjj333_p (any pronouns)> i think a good middle ground clients could do is what conversations/gajim/etc (against spec) do with xep-0066 where if the messsge body is not the exact same as the attachment url it renders it as plaintext.
[22:13:44] <jjj333_p (any pronouns)> because unlike attachments, theres no reason for there to be any additional information

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[22:20:39] <nigel_> True. I'd agree with that.

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[22:26:24] <erebion> I really like the simplicity of the Conversations UI, I just wish I could tap a reply to see what it replies to.

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[22:58:48] <Kris> Works in Cheogram.

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[23:01:54] <Licaon_Kter> Any reason `multicast.process-one.net` still tries to s2s every 15 -30mins to my server? Not the first time I complain...

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[23:21:06] <moparisthebest> > The irony of me seeing in Conversations quotes with emojis from Cheo by you reacting to a "fragmentation" joke.
😂

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