ejabberd - Tuesday, August 25, 2026

[10:17:13] <chunk> please don't spare details, i can read and write english natively
[10:18:06] <chunk> > ah, just looked right now. looks very professional congrats ksa.(except the typo)
aha, didn't look but I happen to agree

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[10:24:46] <chunk> is it a ridiculous idea to like, transparent proxy every different stream from an xmpp server over tor network and have the server host just ignore actual clearnet domains opting for onion ones?
[10:25:15] <chunk> i want to create an xmpp wormhole

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[10:26:59] <chunk> and what if what's at the end of the wormhole, is a worm and lives on i2p network??

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[10:27:38] <chunk> and just to blow all xmppians away be like, a normal client never even need to know they were all the way chillin with that worm, except maybe wonder cuz of the mad lag lol

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[10:27:59] <chunk> ONE MORE QUESTION

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[10:29:29] <chunk> I seent that prosody has a port multiplexing module, if ejabberd does not have this, I will use prosody. For ejabberd to have this will I have to create my own module? Is making this happen somewhat trivial? for clarification: :5222,:5269,and any other xmpp public ports on :55222, all of them

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[10:30:29] <chunk> ephemeral ports just to piss off like, the smallest amount of already pissed off firewalls LoL

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[10:30:35] <chunk> and no deal
[10:30:43] <chunk> i accept that risk

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[11:04:09] <Holger> chunk: You could use HAproxy or sslh for multiplexing traffic.

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[11:07:30] <Holger> chunk: Letting ejabberd listen on a Tor port is of course no problem, but if you mean .onion support for s2s, we don't have that. So that may be a reason for using Prosody indeed.

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[11:11:41] <chunk> cool. sslh, i will look that up in just a second. would you think that using tor as a transparent proxy and even chaining proxies, mainly to properly hide the real location of the xmpp server, is this valid? im tired and i dont know if my idea makes sense, but seems really cool.
[11:12:55] <chunk> https://github.com/yrutschle/sslh << i never thought there'd be something like this, nice and handy thanks!

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[11:13:44] <Holger> chunk: Hiding the server's location will fall apart if you want to federate.
[11:13:59] <Holger> For a closed c2s-only setup, it might work.

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[11:15:04] <Holger> With Prosody's onion module, the s2s part may work as well. Not entirely sure.

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[11:15:48] <Holger> chunk: See https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368 for some ideas on multiplexing, though that wiki page is missing examples for multiplexing c2s vs. s2s.

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[11:17:43] <chunk> > chunk: Hiding the server's location will fall apart if you want to federate.
hmmm......

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[11:18:23] <chunk> also for prosody's onions module to s2s the other servers have to allow self signed certificates, so naturally, disallow a butt load of other secure settings

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[11:18:31] <chunk> not disallow but ignore
[11:19:00] <chunk> as well i have actually seen a guy with an .i2p address on :5269

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[11:19:28] <chunk> thanks, i will read the XEP page you sent me after my cigarette.

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[11:21:43] <chunk> thanks, i will read the XEP page you sent me after my cigarette.
[11:22:55] <chunk> > Application-Layer Protocol Negotiation
:O

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[11:23:39] <chunk> 😄

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[11:24:34] <Holger> That's what you'd need to mulitplex direct TLS for e.g. c2s vs. s2s.
[11:25:06] <Holger> (And since I'm not sure what clients/servers set ALPN, that part may not be robust.)

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[11:27:41] <chunk> > Note that this will not hide XMPP traffic from sufficiently intelligent firewalls as ALPN value is still sent unencrypted.
This goes by receiving a $host header I suppose, which works for XMPP, the use of domains. This way I could also send certain XMPP services down different darknet tunnels probably too. Such as with i2p.
[11:28:23] <chunk> my original idea was for my HTTP upload server to "wormhole" through tor and the actual file location hide in i2p

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[11:29:05] chunk is forming a think. think says maybe i2p -> tor -> clearnet: can't be listening? that's a lot of proxying D:
[11:29:06] <Holger> The "host header" is yet another thing, SNI.
[11:29:10] <chunk> yes

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[11:29:52] <Holger> Would work for e.g. multiplexing turn.example.com vs. xmpp.example.com. But as you use the same domain for c2s and s2s, it won't work there.
[11:30:34] <Holger> ALPN would be "xmpp-server" vs. "xmpp-client". But the TLS client needs to actually specify that. I don't think ejabberd currently specifies it, for example.

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[11:31:25] <Holger> XMPP is not exactly designed for hiding the server location and running everything on a single port :-)

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[11:31:39] <chunk> I see, it negotiates via end protocols, not via domains

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[11:32:21] <chunk> > ALPN would be "xmpp-server" vs. "xmpp-client". But the TLS client needs to actually specify that. I don't think ejabberd currently specifies it, for example.
the TLS client, the ... client of the stream? or the one soliciting the connection?
[11:33:13] <Holger> The client that connects via TCP and performs the TLS handshake.

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[11:33:30] <chunk> > XMPP is not exactly designed for hiding the server location and running everything on a single port :-)
aha, well from what I recall the port multiplexor in prosody can run it all on one port, I had a stream proxy config almost ready for nginx that sent it all on one port, i might be wrong

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[11:34:07] <chunk> but i suppose prosody can decipher the actual application layer data
[11:34:16] <chunk> sslh no
[11:34:19] <Holger> No that's not the point.
[11:34:22] <Holger> sslh can do that.
[11:34:53] <Holger> I just talked about a specific thing, multiplexing c2s vs. s2s for direct TLS connections.
[11:34:53] <chunk> i'll read more
[11:35:06] <Holger> Either sslh and Prosody can do that. Or neither sslh nor Prosody can do that.

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[11:36:19] <chunk> cool, sslh in a docker container, i can use podman on my rocky linux for something ^^

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[11:36:59] <chunk> thanks Holger, i wil revisit this after my nap

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[11:39:51] <Holger> chunk: Ah, maybe I'm wrong actually. Prosody could of course multiplex the payload after terminating TLS, you're right (didn't check whether it actually does that though). I guess HAproxy could do that too, but sslh doesn't support that.
[11:40:49] <chunk> cheers, i am smart
[11:40:51] <chunk> :D

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[11:41:02] <Holger> Either way, if "just offer STARTTLS" is good enough, it doesn't matter.
[11:41:27] <chunk> start tls does an extra round trip or handshake or something right?
[11:41:42] <Holger> Yes.
[11:41:50] <chunk> cheers, im on a roll :D:D
[11:42:10] <chunk> i would prefer direct tls maybe
[11:42:23] <Holger> STARTTLS is what XMPP did for ages, falling back to port 5222 due to missing SRV records triggers STARTTLS anyway.

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[11:42:47] <chunk> because similar to how i hate javascript overused, as search boxes are sending double traffic on each keystroke, it's too much waste of latency
[11:42:48] <Holger> Direct TLS is XEP-0368 and depends on SRV records. Which you don't get via Tor :D
[11:42:59] <chunk> o, well yes, no

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[11:43:25] <chunk> i was going to have to use SRV records to multiplex everything on :56969

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[11:44:30] <chunk> I just had a maddeningly cool idea: multiplex all my TCP services: ssh, https, xmpps (c2s,s2s)
[11:44:38] <Holger> For c2s, the alternative to SRV is to tell your users to manually enter the port in their client.
[11:44:45] <chunk> and then use the same port for my wireguard and udp

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[11:44:52] <Holger> chunk: But why? Do you pay for port numbers?
[11:44:59] <chunk> > For c2s, the alternative to SRV is to tell your users to manually enter the port in their client.
ok

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[11:45:40] <chunk> > chunk: But why? Do you pay for port numbers?
no, i just like to think that if someone seen what was going on with that all it would be amusing. also because that's a real bitch to pentest isn't it?

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[11:46:07] <chunk> hmm... maybe not i guess
[11:46:14] <chunk> amusing for sure though xD

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[11:46:35] <Holger> The common thing for 'normal' use cases is to multiplex XMPPS, TURNS, HTTPS-Upload on 443 due to stupid firewalls that allow TLS on 443 and nothing else.

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[11:47:27] <Holger> s2s on other ports is usually fine because servers usually aren't behind stupid firewalls.

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[11:47:41] <chunk> alright then. I don't use audio/voice on my servers, and i never managed to make SIP useful when i still had my awesome VoIP service. One day I'd be interested in expanding my xmpp understanding/skills to handle telephonyu
[11:47:44] <Holger> But yes if you'd like to do weird stuff for the fun of it, go ahead :D

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[11:48:01] <chunk> :D i now have the green light, we are GO
[11:48:21] <Holger> XMPP-VoIP should be trivial to set up these days.

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[11:49:13] <chunk> I had a helluva time trying to wrap my head around SIP with ejabberd, and totally failed that.  however since then found some SIP proxies and a couple more terms and maybe i'll try it again at a l8r day
[11:49:34] <Holger> Well, the opposite of trivial with some Tor/proxy hell in between :D  But trivial with boring network environments.
[11:49:39] <chunk> i also looked up SIP over tor, and a particular project that offered a scheme to make tor actually reliable for voip
[11:49:55] <chunk> yes
[11:50:23] <chunk> i'll probably use ejabberd again this time.  thanks for lending your knowledge

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[20:11:00] <MichaelF> On the voip xmpp check out nethserver8 got a pretty stack.

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[20:13:05] <MichaelF> I use my sip trunk with it and ejabberd for xmpp.

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[21:16:21] <chunk> How does a guy get ONE phone number onto some software they self host? I can pay for a SIM card to get a number but how can i port it to my own software/self? So I can WHOLLY use MY OWN voip system? This is the major issue of me not knowing standing between voip or no voip, cuz my previous voip provider, which was really goid, does kyc shit and i loathe and hate with the strength kyc shit
[21:16:33] <chunk> they do now

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[21:53:08] <Kris> complicated, better use jmp.chat

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[21:53:37] <Kris> for sms only there are gateways you can selfhost though.

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[22:57:04] <Nigel> sms? Hmm I'll have to look i to this.
[22:57:22] <chunk> > complicated, better use jmp.chat
this is not a solution, a solution would make my wishes come true, not just do something else.
[22:57:42] <chunk> jmp.chat censored my sms messages because I used the F word 3 times in a single message.

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[22:58:13] <chunk> And continuously censored my sms messages. For this reason I will not use it anymore.

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[22:59:18] <chunk> It's the layer between SIP and PSTN, bridging these two, I need to learn. I don't need wholesale quantity of phone numbers, just like 3 at most.

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[23:01:56] <chunk> Offtopic anyhow, but Nigel it might not bother you but I even asked singpolyma why I'd have my sms messages denied, and giving me an error message that I read on their site saying it's censored. He says to fulfill their upstream providers' demands. The feds? Like, I've been using SMS messages for many years and such a thing literally never happened, nor should happen, he claims it's normal and always happens.

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[23:03:11] <chunk> Good thing I'm not a bad person actually, but being followed around is not good for my health or the public's health, so maybe this sort of thing doesn't help.
[23:03:31] <Nigel> Could be whoever us supplying the numbers for sms, assuming thats how it works and what toure asking. A Telco. Just another company I would guess.
[23:03:44] <Nigel> Could be whoever us supplying the numbers for sms, assuming thats how it works and what you're asking. A Telco. Just another company I would guess.

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[23:04:10] <Nigel> You do post some weird shit sometimes though to be fair.

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[23:04:34] <chunk> There is absolutely not one righteous reason anybody but the sender and intended recipient should ever be reading or analyzing my sms messages. Bots the same. it is wrong and I wont accept it from anyone.

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[23:04:55] <chunk> > You do post some weird shit sometimes though to be fair.
true, but literally what I just wrote.
[23:05:22] <Nigel> Sms runs over telecommunications companies platforms. Use xmpp if that is an issue 🙄

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[23:05:51] <chunk> no, what solves any perceivable issue here is not using jmp.chat

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[23:06:45] <Nigel> I dont know where jmp.chat gets their numbers, and is offtopic for this muc.
And i need to carry on working now sorry.

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[23:24:31] <chunk> next time dont argue the chunk.

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[23:26:23] <chunk> so i decided i think i will be a somewhat lazy admin and just prop up my usual prosody server and then in a week or two I will, after doing some local testing, migrate it to ejabberd. i really appreciate the granularity in the config to be able to modify all the pubsub variables.

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[23:27:47] <chunk> i'd love to know where I can learn what all can be modified under mod_pubsub. and mod_muc as well. i have a feeling the docs do not tell it all, cuz some of the names of things for mod_pubsub in the config refer to actual account pubsub items, and i dont know where to find this info really.

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