ejabberd - Thursday, February 19, 2026

[19:43:37] <michela> Hello! I am wondering if anyone has good suggestions of clients for iOS users. My company is trialling XMPP, but one problem we have run into is that the iOS apps are not quite up to standard -- they seem to lack features, have ugly bugs, or have not been updated in quite a long time.

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[19:46:37] <Licaon_Kter> michela: just Monal

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[19:47:30] <michela> Ah. That's unfortunate. Thanks anyway, Licaon_Kter. 😐

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[19:50:04] <akrosi> > Hello! I am wondering if anyone has good suggestions of clients for iOS users. My company is trialling XMPP, but one problem we have run into is that the iOS apps are not quite up to standard -- they seem to lack features, have ugly bugs, or have not been updated in quite a long time.
would a PWA client be acceptable? there can be more feature-complete at the cost of performance and polish
[19:50:29] <michela> akrosi, I would be willing to try it! 🙂
[19:50:33] <akrosi> and there are issues with e.g. storing OMEMO keys in web browser cache and losing them under some circumstances
[19:51:53] <akrosi> I selfhost Movim, but I don't know if it'd be appropriate for a corporate environment, I believe Converse.js and Fluux can run in the browser
[19:52:14] <michela> Hm. These issues make me wonder if XMPP is viable. It's a bummer, because XMPP seems to be more mature and potentially more reliable than Matrix at this stage.
[19:53:04] <michela> Ah. I've seen those web based clients in my search. Can I host them on a web server, so that end-users do not need to run them locally, sort of like how people can do with Slack, Discord, Teams, etc?
[19:53:05] <akrosi> I agree the iOS client situation is quite dire, to the point that a friend of mine wants to make a new one out of sheer frustration

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[19:53:53] <michela> > I agree the iOS client situation is quite dire, to the point that a friend of mine wants to make a new one out of sheer frustration
I thought about it as well! hah. I don't think I have the time for it, myself, nor do I own a Mac to run Xcode on. 😀
[19:54:49] <akrosi> > Ah. I've seen those web based clients in my search. Can I host them on a web server, so that end-users do not need to run them locally, sort of like how people can do with Slack, Discord, Teams, etc?
converse.js can definitely be selfhosted, from what I'm seeing

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[19:56:02] <michela> Awesome. Thanks so much for this, akrosi!!

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[19:57:12] <Kris> yeah, all of the web clients can be selfhosted of course. Fluux, ConverseJS and Prose all run fully in the browser, Movim also has a server component that makes it more lightweight on the browser clients.
[19:57:30] <akrosi> np
I don't know if they're an ideal solution, but they may be worth a try
[19:57:54] <Kris> of those webclients Movim has by far the best A/V calls support if that is needed
[19:57:57] <akrosi> I don't know if it's ready for corporate deployment but movim is very very impressive in capabilities, especially for such a small project
[19:58:07] <akrosi> yes—the latest from git has working conference calls :)

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[19:58:42] <akrosi> you can disable the social media style pubsub interface to make it chat only

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[20:06:09] <zeank> > Hm. These issues make me wonder if XMPP is viable. It's a bummer, because XMPP seems to be more mature and potentially more reliable than Matrix at this stage.
Monal is supposed to get an update some time soon. But there’s no official date or such. They have a grant from NLnet to rewrite parts of the UI (chat view). This will build the foundation for a bright future. But you’d need some patience.

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[20:07:31] <Licaon_Kter> michela:
> Ah. That's unfortunate. Thanks anyway, Licaon_Kter. 😐
Monal works fine. What do you mean?

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[20:07:58] <zeank> Also except for some bugs that can be solved by restarts and missing reactions, I’m sort of ok with Monal. It does reliable OMEMO encryption, MAM, A/V calls and most things required by a modern client.

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[20:08:17] <sudoblue> > I agree the iOS client situation is quite dire, to the point that a friend of mine wants to make a new one out of sheer frustration
🔥
[20:08:53] <michela> Kris, akrosi, that's really great to hear! Movim sounds promising. I will check it out. Thank you again!

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[20:10:16] <michela> > michela:
> > Ah. That's unfortunate. Thanks anyway, Licaon_Kter. 😐
> Monal works fine. What do you mean?
It does not work well for me. Messages are not synced, notifications sometimes do not happen. Many messages are simply not received by my Monal client at all.
[20:11:05] <michela> > michela:
> > Ah. That's unfortunate. Thanks anyway, Licaon_Kter. 😐
> Monal works fine. What do you mean?
It does not work well for me. Messages are not synced, notifications sometimes do not happen (even though I get a pop-up saying messages have been synced successfully each time I load Monal). Many messages are simply not received by my Monal client at all.

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[20:11:40] <michela> I do have the mam plug-in enabled as well.
[20:12:01] <akrosi> it's a shame, because Monocles on Android (and Conversations, which it's a fork of) is one of the best clients, bar none

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[20:12:50] <akrosi> at least, out of those I've tried thus far
[20:12:57] <Licaon_Kter> michela: You've read both
https://github.com/monal-im/Monal/wiki/Considerations-for-XMPP-server-admins
And adwise your users to: https://github.com/monal-im/Monal/wiki/Considerations-for-XMPP-users
?

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[20:13:11] <michela> Yah. I've heard others raving about those Android apps. It's bizare there os nothing comparible to them for iOS.

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[20:13:26] <Licaon_Kter> michela:
> Yah. I've heard others raving about those Android apps. It's bizare there os nothing comparible to them for iOS.
Guess why,....try :)
[20:13:38] <kousu> I was going to say Apple development is expensive and Monal needs funding: https://liberapay.com/tmolitor, but it's great NLnet is behind them now

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[20:17:59] <michela> It is really annoying that Apple development is the way it is (Mac and Xcode required, etc.).

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[20:20:11] <michela> Thanks for the link to the Monal wiki, Licaon_Kter. That was helpful, though it really should work well enough without server modifications. It's not exactly intuitively obvious that any adjustments there would be necessary, given other clients work fine with our server. It just looks like Monal is broken.

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[20:20:42] <Licaon_Kter> michela: it's not Monals fault, they try but Apple is awful
[20:20:48] <michela> I will adjust 'smacks_max_queue_size' and set SRV records. Hopefully, those adjustments help.
[20:21:14] <michela> Liac
[20:21:20] <Licaon_Kter> michela: Anyway, better join xmpp:monal@chat.yax.im?join and cry there :) after you set your server right ;)
[20:21:28] <kousu> I would really like Monal to be 100% reliable too. I am also trying to run a (small, low stakes) org and XMPP lost out to Mattermost largely over iOS
[20:21:53] <michela> .

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[20:23:22] <kousu> I didn't see that wiki page before. I've added `muc_notifications` to my server. I had everything else enabled before though. Hopefully that improves things. Maybe I just need to test with a more recent Monal.
[20:23:24] <michela> > michela: it's not Monals fault, they try but Apple is awful
I think we have to simply agree to disagree there. I don't agree with all of Apple's business behaviour, but their products, while not always perfect are top-notch, typically better than most.

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[20:23:55] <michela> > michela: it's not Monals fault, they try but Apple is awful
I think we have to simply agree to disagree there. I don't agree with all of Apple's business behaviour, but their products, while not always perfect, are top-notch, typically better than most.

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[20:24:45] <michela> > michela: it's not Monals fault, they try but Apple is awful
I think we have to simply agree to disagree there. I don't agree with all of Apple's business behaviour, but their products, while not always perfect, are top-notch, typically better than most. Moreover, other clients for other services work well. These aren't common issues.
[20:25:29] <Licaon_Kter> michela: Which part of "apple kills monal and push should be used but push is not guaranteed te be delivered" is not clear to you? Whatsapp works fine? Yeah, how odd....

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[20:25:58] <michela> I'm not saying the people behind Monal aren't great, and obviously funding is important for any project. I am not saying the Monal people have done anything wrong, or that they aren't good at what they do, per se. It's just that I can't ask colleagues and clients to use an app like this.

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[20:26:32] <michela> Licaon_Kter, I don't think this is a productive conversation. 🙂
[20:26:37] <Licaon_Kter> We've been around the block for the last 10 years, we know what the devs have suffered, but if again and again, using the recommended tooling, XMPP clients and just these fail to get push messages, c'mon....

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[20:27:30] <Licaon_Kter> > Licaon_Kter, I don't think this is a productive conversation. 🙂
Sure, you've come, we answered, you said "false, I know better, Apple is right"
There's nothing to talk after this...
Don't implement XMPP, guess Apple would be happy, mission accomplished.
[20:27:56] <michela> > > Licaon_Kter, I don't think this is a productive conversation. 🙂
> Sure, you've come, we answered, you said "false, I know better, Apple is right"
>
> There's nothing to talk after this...
>
> Don't implement XMPP, guess Apple would be happy, mission accomplished.
That's not what I said.

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[20:28:32] <Licaon_Kter> Mmmkay

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[20:28:58] <Licaon_Kter> Anyway, join the Monal room, there's no ejabberd issue IF you implemented the admin settings as the Wiki said.
[20:29:35] <michela> Sometimes, it doesn't matter why something is not workable, just that it is or is not workable. At the end of the day, these are business tools, and if they don't do what we need them to do, we can't use them. It's as simple as that. We can (and do!) sometimes contribute to make open source software better, but we don't have unlimited time or budgets either.

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[20:30:45] <zeank> Tbh, before I followed that guide my experience with Monal wasn’t that great either. So you really need to follow it bit by bit and then there were still issues with my broken pubsub setup that I could figure out with Thilo‘s help.

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[20:31:12] <Licaon_Kter> But see...there's the gist, you dismiss XMPP... The end. Instead of seeing the issues and contribute the fixes. You want to take, but not partake.
FOSS is good when it works for you only? That's not how it works...

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[20:31:38] <michela> > Tbh, before I followed that guide my experience with Monal wasn’t that great either. So you really need to follow it bit by bit and then there were still issues with my broken pubsub setup that I could figure out with Thilo‘s help.
That's really helpful to hear. I am definitely going to implement the relevant adjustments from the Monal wiki.
[20:31:53] <zeank> Also, there is https://compliance.conversations.im - this one’s also crucial for a satisfying user experience.

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[20:31:59] <Licaon_Kter> michela: Don't forot to restart!
[20:32:03] <Licaon_Kter> michela: Don't forget to restart!
[20:32:39] <Licaon_Kter> michela: Btw, which client do you use now?
[20:33:06] <michela> > But see...there's the gist, you dismiss XMPP... The end. Instead of seeing the issues and contribute the fixes. You want to take, but not partake.
>
> FOSS is good when it works for you only? That's not how it works...
Again, that's absolutely not what I said. I love open source software, and I think the vast majority of it is very good. I am an active contributor to an open source project. Just because I can't use something, does not mean I don't think open source software is good. I'm not even really saying Monal isn't good, just that it isn't working for us. It is not a personal attack.
[20:33:31] <michela> I'm using Dino on Ubuntu at the moment. It's working quite well!
[20:34:27] <michela> Doh. I meant to say, "Just because I can't use something, does not mean I don't think open source software is *not* good. I couldn't edit that comment for some reason.
[20:34:34] <michela> Doh. I meant to say, "Just because I can't use something, does not mean I don't think open source software is *not* good." I couldn't edit that comment for some reason.
[20:34:57] <michela> .

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[20:36:34] <zeank> In Monal, when you go to your account settings, there’s a menu entry „protocol support of your server“. You want to make sure to tick most boxes (as good as it gets). With my setup the only remaining red box is XEP-0379. There’s a PR for ejabberd waiting in the queue to fix this.
[20:38:07] <michela> zeank, thanks. That's really helpful!
[20:38:56] <zeank> 👍

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[20:39:57] <akrosi> it feels like the recent Discord situation is driving a big surge of interest and thus funding to XMPP
I am hoping it lasts long enough to get us past the current amount of friction, because things feel really really close to being accessible to pretty much all end-users

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[20:40:35] <akrosi> web registration invites were a big deal for me, since I can just throw a link at someone and say "here, go sign up and log in with what it tells you to"

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[20:43:07] <michela> I hope so too! Attention to this sort of space is really interesting. It would be amazing if these areas of friction were smoothed, and XMPP and other open messaging platforms were more widespread.

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[20:44:13] <michela> I think there is quite a bit of momentum in Europe and Canada for this, given the situation in the US, and with US "big tech". Organisations need data soverignty, and they are realising what a vulnerability it is when they do not have that.

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