ejabberd - Monday, March 16, 2026

[02:19:14] <vlad> is this some race condition/recursive forking caused by ejabberd?
[02:19:55] <vlad> i got a ton of `[error] External eimp process (pid=712294) has terminated unexpectedly, restarting in a few seconds` warnings/errors from ejabberd

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[02:20:52] <vlad> if it matters, i'm running ejabberd 25.10 on gentoo, USE flags: `captcha pam postgres sip stun zlib` (all other available USE flags disabled)

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[02:24:40] <admin_cb> > don't enable dialback, bug the other admin to fix their server...
[02:24:49] <vlad> restarting does it AGAIN, and my server somehow doesn't work anymore, could have something to do with recent updates, let me check...
[02:24:51] <vlad> https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019cf475-dcfc-729c-968b-908346729ce2/29d3e13f-9299-407f-959c-78e18a3f9814.png

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[02:25:18] <admin_cb> at this rate it's just about every server out there.

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[02:26:39] <admin_cb> Test
[02:27:03] <vlad> > Test
test failed, try again

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[02:31:56] <vlad> > restarting does it AGAIN, and my server somehow doesn't work anymore, could have something to do with recent updates, let me check...
```
1771306189:  >>> emerge (69 of 104) dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21 to /
1771306189:  === (69 of 104) Cleaning (dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/stun/stun-1.2.21.ebuild)
1771306189:  === (69 of 104) Compiling/Merging (dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/stun/stun-1.2.21.ebuild)
1771306199:  === (69 of 104) Merging (dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/stun/stun-1.2.21.ebuild)
1771306202:  >>> AUTOCLEAN: dev-erlang/stun:0
1771306202:  === Unmerging... (dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21)
1771306204:  >>> unmerge success: dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21
1771306206:  === (69 of 104) Post-Build Cleaning (dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/stun/stun-1.2.21.ebuild)
1771306206:  ::: completed emerge (69 of 104) dev-erlang/stun-1.2.21 to /
1771306206:  >>> emerge (70 of 104) dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2 to /
1771306206:  === (70 of 104) Cleaning (dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/xmpp/xmpp-1.11.2.ebuild)
1771306206:  === (70 of 104) Compiling/Merging (dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/xmpp/xmpp-1.11.2.ebuild)
1771306235:  === (70 of 104) Merging (dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/xmpp/xmpp-1.11.2.ebuild)
1771306238:  >>> AUTOCLEAN: dev-erlang/xmpp:0
1771306238:  === Unmerging... (dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2)
1771306240:  >>> unmerge success: dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2
1771306242:  === (70 of 104) Post-Build Cleaning (dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/xmpp/xmpp-1.11.2.ebuild)
1771306242:  ::: completed emerge (70 of 104) dev-erlang/xmpp-1.11.2 to /
1771306242:  >>> emerge (71 of 104) dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22 to /
1771306242:  === (71 of 104) Cleaning (dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/yconf/yconf-1.0.22.ebuild)
1771306242:  === (71 of 104) Compiling/Merging (dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/yconf/yconf-1.0.22.ebuild)
1771306252:  === (71 of 104) Merging (dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/yconf/yconf-1.0.22.ebuild)
1771306255:  >>> AUTOCLEAN: dev-erlang/yconf:0
1771306255:  === Unmerging... (dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22)
1771306257:  >>> unmerge success: dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22
1771306260:  === (71 of 104) Post-Build Cleaning (dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/yconf/yconf-1.0.22.ebuild)
1771306260:  ::: completed emerge (71 of 104) dev-erlang/yconf-1.0.22 to /
...
1771306955:  >>> emerge (79 of 104) dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59 to /
1771306955:  === (79 of 104) Cleaning (dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/esip/esip-1.0.59.ebuild)
1771306955:  === (79 of 104) Compiling/Merging (dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/esip/esip-1.0.59.ebuild)
1771306970:  === (79 of 104) Merging (dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/esip/esip-1.0.59.ebuild)
1771306972:  >>> AUTOCLEAN: dev-erlang/esip:0
1771306972:  === Unmerging... (dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59)
1771306974:  >>> unmerge success: dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59
1771306977:  === (79 of 104) Post-Build Cleaning (dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/esip/esip-1.0.59.ebuild)
1771306977:  ::: completed emerge (79 of 104) dev-erlang/esip-1.0.59 to /
1771306977:  >>> emerge (80 of 104) dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29 to /
1771306977:  === (80 of 104) Cleaning (dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_acme/p1_acme-1.0.29.ebuild)
1771306977:  === (80 of 104) Compiling/Merging (dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_acme/p1_acme-1.0.29.ebuild)
1771306987:  === (80 of 104) Merging (dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_acme/p1_acme-1.0.29.ebuild)
1771306989:  >>> AUTOCLEAN: dev-erlang/p1_acme:0
1771306989:  === Unmerging... (dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29)
1771306991:  >>> unmerge success: dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29
1771306994:  === (80 of 104) Post-Build Cleaning (dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_acme/p1_acme-1.0.29.ebuild)
1771306994:  ::: completed emerge (80 of 104) dev-erlang/p1_acme-1.0.29 to /
1771306994:  >>> emerge (81 of 104) dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36 to /
1771306994:  === (81 of 104) Cleaning (dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_pgsql/p1_pgsql-1.1.36.ebuild)
1771306994:  === (81 of 104) Compiling/Merging (dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_pgsql/p1_pgsql-1.1.36.ebuild)
1771307003:  === (81 of 104) Merging (dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_pgsql/p1_pgsql-1.1.36.ebuild)
1771307006:  >>> AUTOCLEAN: dev-erlang/p1_pgsql:0
1771307006:  === Unmerging... (dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36)
1771307008:  >>> unmerge success: dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36
1771307010:  === (81 of 104) Post-Build Cleaning (dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36::/var/db/repos/gentoo/dev-erlang/p1_pgsql/p1_pgsql-1.1.36.ebuild)
1771307010:  ::: completed emerge (81 of 104) dev-erlang/p1_pgsql-1.1.36 to /
```
[02:32:08] <vlad> i suspect its one of the later ones

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[02:33:40] <vlad> the last thing i remember doing is opening dino and closing it before it finished loading, this could be a weird bug where a badly behaving client crashes a server

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[02:42:44] <vlad> i think its something related to eimp,
[02:42:46] <vlad> https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019cf486-4437-72a4-9d8d-9e2fb465ecce/44909847-5e38-4b8f-88c2-8db20472e09b.png
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[03:09:40] <vlad> i recompiled ejabberd and eimp, removed 2 million lines from my hosts file, and it seems to work... either it tries to resolve something and keeps retrying forever while being a ram hog, despite just being null routed, or the sheer size of my hosts file was affecting it

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[03:18:49] <vlad> well that was stupid

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[04:17:39] <ksa> >> But the xmppbl should stop most spammers right? If I implement it on my server?
>
> There are two types of lists. One for MUC, and one for domains. You don‘t want your server to end up in the latter.
Is there a way to verify if my domain is in the list?

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[04:19:57] <ksa> >> I just checked my database entries
>
> I'll have to check mine. Client says this
So eltheanine_ did you check it? I'm just curious.

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[04:20:27] <eltheanine_> just got home 😆
[04:20:42] <ksa> Hell naw lamo
[04:20:44] <eltheanine_> I dont even know how tbf, I am very much a db noob -
[04:20:57] <ksa> How long is your shift bruh
[04:21:15] <ksa> > I dont even know how tbf, I am very much a db noob -
what db you use?
[04:21:16] <eltheanine_> oh its 5:20pm here in New Zealand
[04:21:20] <eltheanine_> posgres

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[04:21:49] <ksa> Well, I used gemini's instructions. I can send you those if you want.
[04:22:13] <eltheanine_> sure

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[04:23:12] <ksa> https://g.co/gemini/share/813cc3ae4623
> sure

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[04:37:35] <zoidberg> i do this on my server, i think its a good way: ```auth_password_format: scram
auth_stored_password_types:
#  - plain
  - scram_sha512
  - scram_sha1
auth_scram_hash: sha512
```
[04:38:32] <eltheanine_> yeah the account I craeted without anything specified is plain, however the client uses scram
[04:38:50] <eltheanine_> oh I like that zoidberg,
[04:39:04] <eltheanine_> Thats exactly what I was after
[04:39:40] <eltheanine_> I read the docs and get my head around it.
[04:39:58] <zoidberg> from what i understand, ejabberd still stores these sort of passwords, but register new accs using the top notchs hashes.

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[04:40:31] <eltheanine_> I recall a setting to upgrade stored passwords too, so will check that out.
[04:40:42] <zoidberg> however if you have passwords in plaintext, means that you can still convert them all to the best hash IIRC(from reading the docs not long ago).
[04:41:01] <zoidberg> if they are already hashed you cant do that though,.

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[04:49:11] <eltheanine_> Yes i have 2 accounts there: one plain, and one hashed

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[05:01:32] <zoidberg> according to the docs, is says that auth_stored_password_types overrides the other 2 option, so my config is tecnically wrong, in the sense that the 2 other options are not in action here.

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[05:14:49] <eltheanine_> Hmm, I'll look later.

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[07:08:51] <ksa> I'm proud to announce that my server now uses SCRAM sha512 to store passwords 🎉🎊

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[07:09:23] <ksa> Every new user created also defaults to the new method of storing passwords

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[07:10:00] <ksa> Also, I don't noticew any significant change in resource usage so, ig it's fine.

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[07:14:14] <eltheanine_> alright updated mine also. Thank you for bringing my attention to it 🧡
[07:14:29] <ksa> That's what bros are for
[07:14:32] <ksa> lol

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[07:15:42] <ksa> Imagine someone starting a service without realizing that they're storing passwords in plain text 😱
[07:16:12] <ksa> That's what default ejabberd is doing rn

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[07:23:25] <eltheanine_> the defaults for a lot of projects are.... rather minimal

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[07:41:50] <resoli> > But It seems is not published anywhere for web of trust for verification (I checked on https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/ and https://keys.openpgp.org/ )
Having it published and signed from some people would help in trusting it

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[07:43:53] <ksa> > https://avesdrop.com:5443/upload/3d358a32d9e5f95da236b8585d3259020ab4632e/A0pAqUt4mIEwZoENQwohZ3WvuwLYq67Mkkr3Fkr6/image.png
So... this section is veryyyy misleading in Ejabberd web admin. Whatever hashing algo you use this section shows md5 as an example.

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[07:44:40] <ksa> Which can lead people to believe they're using md5

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[07:46:06] <eltheanine_> I guess as an admin you should know what you have set up. I did expect mine was plain; I also knew that ti was authing from my client with sha512 so wanted to see what was going on.

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[08:37:10] <ksa> Can someone tell me what happens when someone sends me a video?
1) Does the disk of my server fill up?
2) If so is the video or image is auto deleted or not?
I can't find anything about auto deletion for mod_http_upload.
[08:38:52] <ksa> I want my users' media to not be on my server for more than 5 days or so.

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[09:04:52] <Holger> > Also, I don't noticew any significant change in resource usage so, ig it's fine.
Yes resource usage will be fine, the only issue could be clients that don't support 512 yet. I *guess* most/all popular clients do these days but I'm not sure.

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[09:06:07] <Holger> > Can someone tell me what happens when someone sends me a video?
> 1) Does the disk of my server fill up?
> 2) If so is the video or image is auto deleted or not?
> I can't find anything about auto deletion for mod_http_upload.
mod_http_upload_quota has a `days` option to limit the number of days uploads of your users are stored.

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[09:10:46] <Holger> BTW as for that `plain` password storage default, I agree you'd want `scram` for the typical instant messaging use case these days, problem is ejabberd also wants to support other use cases (SIP, MQTT, IoT, STUN/TURN without mod_stun_disco) that often depend on plaintext passwords. And then, now we have different hash algos, the admin may want scram1 or scram256 or scram512 or multiple of those. You can easily convert plain text passwords to one or multiple of those, but you can't convert a hashed password to anything. So I'm not entirely sure about the best default.

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[09:11:44] <Holger> A commented-out option in the example config file might be good either way.

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[09:14:32] <zeank> Even if ejabberd wants to support other use cases, aren’t they rather advanced? Shouldn’t the default rather match a good and secure UX for most and then if someone wants to use ejabberd for a rather advanced use case, can’t we expect them to dive a bit deeper into the documentation where we can leave detailed instructions?

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[09:21:28] <Holger> Maybe. So what's a good default?

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[09:23:53] <ksa> Guys, can I set a higher limit for mod_http_upload for specific users? like 100 mb for everyone but like 500 mb for selected accounts?

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[09:24:24] <ksa> > > Can someone tell me what happens when someone sends me a video?
> > 1) Does the disk of my server fill up?
> > 2) If so is the video or image is auto deleted or not?
> > I can't find anything about auto deletion for mod_http_upload.
>
> mod_http_upload_quota has a `days` option to limit the number of days uploads of your users are stored.
Thank you Holger,
[09:24:48] <Holger> zeank: I mean yes. I see your point of course. But I'd nevertheless maintain that it's a little meh to ship defaults that break those other use cases out of the box. We should at least disable MQTT in the example config then, rather than suggesting an unusable setup.

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[09:25:14] <Holger> But either way there's the other issue that I have no idea which SCRAM algos should be enabled by default.

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[09:30:02] <ksa> > Guys, can I set a higher limit for mod_http_upload for specific users? like 100 mb for everyone but like 500 mb for selected accounts?
And also for the 'days' option?

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[09:45:45] <zoidberg> Maybe using shaper rules? Not sure

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[09:47:14] <zoidberg> Maybe using shaper rules? Not sure[updated]: doesnt look like it no.

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[09:49:23] <zeank> > zeank: I mean yes. I see your point of course. But I'd nevertheless maintain that it's a little meh to ship defaults that break those other use cases out of the box. We should at least disable MQTT in the example config then, rather than suggesting an unusable setup.
Well that’s something I wanted to suggest anyway. The vast majority of people won’t need a port open for MQTT. You shouldn’t offer more than what you want to use. And at that point I’m sure there are many people who just don’t know what it even is and what it does.
[09:49:25] <prefiks> max_days is global, so you wouldn't be able to do it, limits use acl, size limits are access rules so you should be able to do that
[09:50:12] <zeank> > But either way there's the other issue that I have no idea which SCRAM algos should be enabled by default.
That’s best discussed elsewhere I guess. I don’t know which clients would break either.

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[09:50:47] <ksa> > > But either way there's the other issue that I have no idea which SCRAM algos should be enabled by default.
>
> That’s best discussed elsewhere I guess. I don’t know which clients would break either.
Well, Conversations, Gajim and Movim work perfectly as before for me.
[09:51:08] <prefiks> shaper_rules:
  soft_upload_quota:
    500:
      user: "admin@server"
    100: all
[09:52:04] <prefiks> something like that i think will work there is also hard_upload_quota, which can be used like that

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[09:55:48] <zoidberg> Maybe using shaper rules? Not sure? Updated: As P refix showed below.

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[09:56:52] <zeank> idag 10:25:
> But either way there's the other issue that I have no idea which SCRAM algos should be enabled by default.
How does prosody handle this? …

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[10:03:17] <Holger> zeank: I *think* they do SCRAM-1 by default. (And I *think* they don't even support 512 and regret 256, due to all that compatibility nightmare.)

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[10:04:27] <Holger> So if we actually believe that 256/512 might offer an actual security benefit one day, that default would have the downside of making an upgrade impossible (or very hard). Unlike plain.

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[10:05:28] <Holger> I guess the least evil might be storing all three algos by default. In which case I don't see the benefit of 256/512 whatsoever (since the attacker can just attack the sha1 copy) but whatever makes people happy.

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[10:06:15] <Holger> I mean yes it allows for offering SASL-SCAM-256/512.
[10:06:27] <Holger> SC(R)AM :-)
[10:07:02] <Holger> I wasn't opposed to any of this. Just to yippie-hooray-go-for-it without thinking about implications.

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[10:11:34] <prefiks> yes, unless you control clients, unfortunatelly you need to offer sha1

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[10:14:23] <zeank> Still better than plain…

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[10:16:08] <Holger> If you offer *all* algos it's strictly better, yes; as long as we don't invent yet another more secure algo to which only plain passwords can be upgraded.

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[10:16:19] <Holger> If we only offer sha1 then it's a trade-off.

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[10:17:11] <zeank> Is sha1 so easily compromised?
[10:17:24] <Holger> No?
[10:17:31] <Holger> Will it never be?

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[10:17:38] <Holger> Why does 256/512 exist then?
[10:18:13] <Holger> Even if it will never be and 256/512 was a mistake, can we assume all client devs supporting 1 forever?
[10:18:21] <zeank> Yeah sure, but if we offer all three, we’re basically downgrading them to sha1.
[10:18:31] <Holger> Yes.
[10:18:32] <zeank> Hm

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[10:19:05] <Holger> I'm not trying to be complicated but what I'm opposing to is the idea that "better than plain" is an obvious/trivial assumption.
[10:19:09] <zeank> Maybe there’s a missing XEP: force password update/reset :D

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[10:19:44] <Holger> If the attacker can trigger that they could enforce the client sending the plain-text password.
[10:20:49] <zeank> Hm, yeah, prosody has password reset tokens, want to implement that too as part of mod_invites. But that’s out of band and that means you need another channel of communication for it to work.
[10:21:17] <Holger> And what I'd strongly oppose to is "c'mon Conversations/Monal do 512 let's go for it".

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[10:22:44] <Holger> > Hm, yeah, prosody has password reset tokens, want to implement that too as part of mod_invites. But that’s out of band and that means you need another channel of communication for it to work.
Yeah it's hard to support another channel out of the box …

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[10:33:10] <zeank> I think if someone configures sha1 (even if it’s the default) it’s safe to also store sha256/512 and offer that to clients too, just to keep the door open to an upgrade path. Yes, maybe in some decades from now any of those will be deprecated but that’s not a problem we could solve now.

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[10:33:44] <Holger> Yes long story short 1+256+512 by default might be the least evil.

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[10:39:06] <zeank> But needs some changes in code more than just a different default, right?

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[11:08:00] <Kris> > Even if ejabberd wants to support other use cases, aren’t they rather advanced? Shouldn’t the default rather match a good and secure UX for most and then if someone wants to use ejabberd for a rather advanced use case, can’t we expect them to dive a bit deeper into the documentation where we can leave detailed instructions?
👍

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[11:13:05] <Kris> Maybe not? Multiple passwords are supported since a recent release

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[16:16:08] <dwd> FWIW, the primary problem with SHA1 (and, indeed, the other SHAs) in SCRAM is that they're too fast, so offer much less protection against brute-force/dictionary attacks than they used to. There's a draft around for using modern password hashing instead of PBKDF2, which might improve things, or of course we can go in another direction with OPAQUE.

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[16:17:23] <zoidberg> Okok, i will just leave the passwords in plain for now and wait for the next thing...
[16:17:38] <zoidberg> But that will be the last time...

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[16:39:57] <Holger> 😀

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[16:42:55] <Holger> > Because I don't believe that it's really desirable to have security on a computer, I shouldn't be willing to help uphold the security regime.
— RMS

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[16:51:26] <moparisthebest> I need strong cryptography to hide my password from my server admin after already sending it to her in plaintext - and other statements by the utterly deranged and SCRAM devs

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[16:53:24] <zoidberg> A woman admin??? Oh yeah she will definitely leak the password in the hair saloon

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[17:15:08] <Licaon_Kter> > I need strong cryptography to hide my password from my server admin after already sending it to her in plaintext - and other statements by the utterly deranged and SCRAM devs
infosec-handbook.eu was not wrong????

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[17:20:41] <moparisthebest> about what?

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[17:21:59] <Licaon_Kter> The quote....

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[17:22:31] <Licaon_Kter> Ald blogpost was saying, scram is useless against admin as passw changes are done in plain and logged
[17:22:37] <Licaon_Kter> Old blogpost was saying, scram is useless against admin as passw changes are done in plain and logged
[17:23:13] <moparisthebest> I don't know about "and logged" but the rest is right

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[17:24:22] <Licaon_Kter> In server logs when level set to debug

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[17:24:59] <moparisthebest> as a user you certainly can't tell it was not logged or sent directly to the admin, but everyone uses unique passwords per service of course so it doesn't matter if your xmpp admin has your xmpp password right?

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[17:28:53] <Licaon_Kter> Fake news :)

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[17:30:06] <zoidberg> If unique passwords mean one password for everything then thats correct

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[17:47:02] <eltheanine_> The amount of db dumps from breaches we see, I would have thought hashed passwords are for that consideration, not your admin.

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[17:48:34] <eltheanine_> Storing passwords in plain text just seems negligent at this point.

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[18:00:34] <moparisthebest> they shouldn't ever be stored plaintext, but SCRAM nonsense requires either that or storing them hashed in multiple different weak ways and hoping no future way comes along

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