ejabberd - Sunday, November 8, 2026

[09:37:51] <Kris> Would be neat if ejabberd suppory waa tested against it some time. It works with Prosody.
[09:38:11] <Kris> https://gultsch.social/@daniel/117576680272610572

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[09:39:11] <Kris> Ah I see there is already a volunteer to implement it.
[09:39:25] <Kris> zeank: thanks a lot 👍

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[09:42:52] <zeank> Not sure when I’ll get to it though.

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[09:44:22] <zeank> I’m also thinking of turning ejabberd into an oAuth2 provider, just like prosody does.

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[09:45:29] <zoidberg> does that mean that we could place authelia to do auth in ejabberd?
[09:45:30] <Kris> Isn't that what it already does?
[09:45:45] <Kris> But probably bitrotted

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[09:45:50] <zeank> Maybe?

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[09:46:49] <Kris> I am like 75% sure ejabberd already has a oauth2 provider built in, but no one is using it.

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[09:47:50] <zeank> > does that mean that we could place authelia to do auth in ejabberd?
From a quick look, yes!
How is it different from keycloak?

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[09:49:00] <zeank> > I am like 75% sure ejabberd already has a oauth2 provider built in, but no one is using it.
You mean this? https://github.com/processone/ejabberd-contrib/tree/master/mod_openid

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[09:52:57] <zoidberg> I never used keycloak, so i am not sure. I need to dig info about that. But thx.👍👍

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[09:53:28] <zeank> Think I found it ... https://docs.ejabberd.im/developer/ejabberd-api/oauth/

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[11:04:19] <Kris> Yeah, that built in one, not a mod.

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[11:09:36] <zeank> Yes, looks (a lot) like what we need.

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[11:24:04] <MattJ> Prosody basically has two modes: 1) act as the identity provider (mod_http_oauth2, ~~2000 LOC) and 2) use an external identity provider (mod_auth_oauth_external, ~~250 LOC)

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[11:24:33] <MattJ> In my simple dev setup at the sprint (1 admin, 1 user), Prosody uses 25MB RAM and Keycloak uses 700MB RAM

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[11:26:05] <zeank> lol

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[11:26:14] <MattJ> Option 1 is good for if you want a no-fuss way to just allow e.g. logging into hosted XMPP web clients without giving them your XMPP password. On the XMPP side you still get all the full XMPP stuff

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[11:27:07] <zeank> Option 2 is also when you want to connect an existing system like a mastodon server, keycloak makes sense only if you also want to connect a multitude of other systems
[11:27:10] <MattJ> Option 2 is where you want to delegate all authentication to an external identity provider. You lose SCRAM, in-band registration, password changes, and all the stuff you're used to. You even lose PLAIN support by default so you can't use regular clients.

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[11:27:52] <MattJ> PLAIN can be enabled if the identity provider supports the (deprecated) OAuth "password grant" flow. It can be enabled in Keycloak but is off by default.
[11:28:25] <MattJ> SCRAM can't work because the identity providers generally don't support SASL and won't reveal the password to the XMPP server either

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[11:29:07] <MattJ> Yes, Mastodon should work fine too, if you want Mastodon to be solely in control of your account management
[11:29:33] <zeank> You're talking about a system that offers both, oauth login and "the legacy way", for the same host?
[11:30:17] <zeank> > Yes, Mastodon should work fine too, if you want Mastodon to be solely in control of your account management
Yes, that's the idea here. But of course, this will work only with clients that support oauth login

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[11:33:05] <MattJ> > You're talking about a system that offers both, oauth login and "the legacy way", for the same host?
Yes, Prosody supports exposing PLAIN if the IdP supports password grants

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[11:33:17] <MattJ> That allows 99% of clients to work as-is
[11:33:33] <MattJ> With the obvious downsides of PLAIN
[11:34:07] <zeank> This use case wouldn't make the top of my list at this point, tbh

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[11:34:49] <MattJ> So what client(s) would you use "at this point"? :)

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[11:36:50] <zeank> The problem with plain auth is also that you need to give instructions which jid to use for login. On mastodon etc I login using my email-address.
That reminds that I don't know how Conversations is implementing things right now...

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[11:39:28] <MattJ> Currently you enter the JID into Conversations, and then it will redirect to the identity provider
[11:39:55] <MattJ> The username is equal to your Mastodon username
[11:39:55] <zeank> At this point I don't use any clients, I'd rather have a a clean solution than one that needs a lot of instructions and explanations.
I'd love to see a solution that's just as straight forward as using any other mastodon/AP client. Means I tell which server I want to log into and then I'm being redirected to the instance that handles oAuth.
In mobilizon for instance, I can have multiple identities, and I'd pick the one I want to use at the login step on the remote instance.
[11:40:10] <zeank> Yeah, that's sorta bad

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[11:42:08] <zeank> It's bad not only but also because it's very confusing for people to learn that sometimes they have to use username/password to log in and sometimes email/password.

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[11:42:31] <MattJ> If they enter email/password, how does Conversations know what to do with it?

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[11:42:58] <zeank> They don't, they shouldn't enter credentials at all, they should just enter the hostname, or the URL.
[11:43:02] <MattJ> If they register with your Mastodon with username@gmail.com, and they enter username@gmail.com into Conversations, what should happen next?

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[11:44:10] <zeank> The XMPP server and client would learn the acting jid (somehow?) from the redirect after succesful login ...

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[11:44:43] <MattJ> If you want the user to enter only their email address into the client, it has no idea which server you want to log in to

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[11:45:00] <zeank> As I said, that's not the process I have in mind!

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[11:45:37] <zeank> You enter the host, an URL for instance. I want to log into http://mastodon.social. That's what client's login form should ask for.
[11:45:42] <MattJ> Okay

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[11:46:26] <MattJ> And how do you know which XMPP server to connect to?
[11:46:47] <zeank> They must be identical
[11:47:10] <MattJ> So mastodon.social must also be an XMPP domain in this example?

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[11:47:23] <zeank> Yes, you're extending it
[11:48:05] <zeank> (of course SRV records should still work here in this scenario, so the actual connect host can be different, but not the XMPP domain)

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[11:50:17] <zeank> I think the login form at the client should allow any input like mastodon.social, https://mastodon.social, https://mastodon.social/@zeank, zeank@mastodon.social, @zeank@mastodon.social etc

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[11:51:01] <zeank> with the caveat that the actual identity after sign in might not be zeank@mastodon.social ...

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[11:53:01] <zeank> Means the server needs to relay that information to the client and then that's what the client uses to bind to the stream

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[11:54:16] <zeank> Otherwise I could pretend to be whoever on that domain

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[12:01:47] <MattJ> So you could open Conversations and enter zeank@mastodon.social and it will just work :)
[12:02:11] <MattJ> I think requiring the identity provider to have the same domain as the XMPP service is a constraint some people won't want
[12:02:21] <zeank> Well yes... but that's just for convenience so users don't get confused.

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[12:02:47] <zeank> > I think requiring the identity provider to have the same domain as the XMPP service is a constraint some people won't want
How would that work in your scenario then?

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[12:03:59] <MattJ> Currently the XMPP server provides the authorization endpoint for the account
[12:04:07] <zeank> How would the target system for auth know that my xmpp jid is from a different domain? How would it do the mapping?

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[12:04:49] <MattJ> It doesn't need to know, and it's trivial for the case where external username == XMPP username, which presumably what most people want

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[12:05:17] <zeank> But that's where it's the same domain

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[12:06:20] <MattJ> No, I could set up xmpp:notgoogletalk.com that lets people sign in with their Google account for example

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[12:06:43] <zeank> Say, my jid is zeank@xmpp.mastodon.social so it redirects to the endpoint at https://mastodon.social, there I log in as zeank@mastodon.social ... but how do you connect the two?

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[12:07:17] <MattJ> The XMPP client has the XMPP domain
[12:07:27] <zeank> Say, I could also (because I'm evil) say I'm mattj@xmpp.mastodon.social, you do the redirect and there I login as zeank@mastodon.social ...
[12:07:49] <MattJ> OIDC returns the identity you authenticated as

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[12:08:16] <zeank> How do you know they are correct as in they match up?
[12:08:51] <MattJ> They definitely might not match up, as with any app that uses OAuth, you can't trust the initial identity, that's what OIDC fixed
[12:09:04] <MattJ> (by providing the post-auth identity to the application)

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[12:09:26] <MattJ> So the client gets back a token, and authenticates to the server, and the server will return their JID

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[12:09:53] <MattJ> That's already how things work today without OAuth, technically (except I don't know how many clients actually handle it well)
[12:09:57] <zeank> Server here is the OIDC instance, right? How does it know the JID if it's different?
[12:10:19] <MattJ> No, server here is the XMPP server

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[12:11:48] <zeank> How does the server know the correct jid? OIDC says I'm zeank@mastodon.social but the xmpp server runs as foo.org - do the usernames have to be the same? What's the rule?
[12:12:11] <zeank> username as in "what's before the @" here
[12:12:15] <MattJ> The rule is ultimately up to the XMPP deployment, the default is to use the username
[12:12:29] <MattJ> So you would be zeank@foo.org
[12:13:14] <zeank> Ok. But anyway, it doesn't really matter what I said first, who I am as long as the hostname is correct...
[12:13:50] <MattJ> Right
[12:14:19] <zeank> Which is way I say, the form shouldn't need to ask for more (but be ok with whatever)
[12:14:47] <MattJ> Except I think what you were saying is that the user should enter the identity domain, whilst the current implementation is to enter the XMPP domain

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[12:15:42] <zeank> Yay, you're right, it should be the xmpp domain - up to the service if they are the same or not.

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[12:16:43] <zeank> Just a matter of this mapping rule we talked about
[12:16:45] <MattJ> Okay, I think that would be totally fine. My understanding is that Conversations doesn't *currently* support that
[12:17:01] <MattJ> Because it also does anonymous auth that way (just enter the domain)
[12:17:02] <zeank> Yeah, I'm afraid too, I'll ask Daniel

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[12:17:22] <MattJ> But he said it probably won't be the final UI, he just wanted to get it implemented to start with

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[12:17:37] <zeank> That's my understanding
[12:17:47] <MattJ> So to trigger the OAuth flow it's user@domain, empty password
[12:18:02] <zeank> Ic
[12:18:09] <MattJ> But yes, that 'user@' can change
[12:18:20] <MattJ> depending on what the user actually authenticates as with the identity provider
[12:18:27] <MattJ> So it's basically ignored

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[12:18:40] <MattJ> Except it would allow a server to offer per-user identity providers :)
[12:19:01] <MattJ> (Prosody doesn't support this, and I find it hard to think of a good use case, but it would be possible)

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[16:02:23] <marko.cupac> Is ejabberd's session binding's lack of support for external auth mechanisms by design / technical requirement, or just not implemented? I am satisfied with my ldap setup (my users have single set of credentials for all the services), but conversations' default for session binding is causing problems for both new and existing users.

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