Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Wednesday, July 11, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[00:00:01] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[00:01:33] frainz leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[00:04:48] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[00:18:06] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[00:18:19] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[00:23:50] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: system-shutdown
[00:35:10] Dominik Paulus leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[00:40:05] deavmi leaves the room
[00:40:35] zinid leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[00:42:06] genofire leaves the room
[00:44:02] genofire leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[00:44:55] Tyler leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[00:51:58] joekokker leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[00:55:15] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[00:55:53] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[00:56:36] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[01:03:01] tyler leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[01:13:20] genofire leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[01:14:10] Licaon_Kter leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[01:19:13] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[01:20:11] spicewiesel leaves the room
[01:22:04] spicewiesel leaves the room
[01:51:51] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[02:01:59] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[02:13:22] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[02:16:18] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[02:24:53] spicewiesel leaves the room
[02:33:20] Odin leaves the room: Stream reset by peer
[02:33:32] zash leaves the room
[02:36:26] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[02:39:56] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[02:51:40] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[03:01:42] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[03:10:55] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[03:11:11] Alacer leaves the room
[03:12:07] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[03:16:25] debalance leaves the room
[03:20:52] aditya_borikar leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[03:22:15] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[03:22:52] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[03:26:12] tester leaves the room
[03:28:26] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[03:46:02] zash leaves the room
[03:51:09] xinit leaves the room
[03:53:49] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[04:02:56] mimi89999 leaves the room
[04:07:25] Alacer leaves the room
[04:10:28] spicewiesel leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[04:21:15] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[04:24:31] alexis leaves the room
[04:25:37] nandhakumargdr leaves the room
[04:26:40] ta leaves the room
[04:26:47] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[04:31:06] alexis leaves the room
[04:36:55] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[04:49:32] aditya_borikar leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[04:50:20] tester leaves the room
[04:52:15] xinit leaves the room
[04:58:23] zash leaves the room
[04:59:08] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[04:59:30] zash leaves the room: Disconnected: Received SIGTERM
[05:03:18] pprrks leaves the room
[05:07:42] sindrake leaves the room
[05:13:15] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[05:17:29] nandhakumargdr leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[05:24:33] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[05:32:07] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[05:41:17] lorddavidiii leaves the room
[05:42:49] nandhakumargdr leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[05:45:06] ChaosKid42 leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[05:48:23] jere leaves the room
[06:12:22] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[06:18:56] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[06:20:45] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[06:21:59] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[06:22:32] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[06:23:24] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room
[06:23:58] pprrks leaves the room
[06:32:59] secret_agent leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[06:46:34] marek leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[06:49:13] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[06:59:58] aditya_borikar leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[07:04:55] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:05:53] sindrake leaves the room
[07:11:56] Odin leaves the room
[07:22:15] Odin leaves the room
[07:26:16] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:26:29] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:30:28] zinid leaves the room
[07:32:11] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:35:15] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:37:25] rom1dep leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:37:37] cromain leaves the room
[07:37:50] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:38:06] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[07:40:22] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:43:37] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:44:12] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:44:45] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:45:25] robert_mobil leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[07:46:05] Akasch leaves the room
[07:49:25] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:50:11] pprrks leaves the room
[07:53:08] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: system-shutdown
[07:53:08] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: system-shutdown
[07:53:08] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: system-shutdown
[07:55:03] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[07:58:24] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:00:45] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[08:04:02] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:06:36] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[08:12:21] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[08:18:10] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[08:18:43] deavmi leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[08:19:56] sindrake leaves the room
[08:23:02] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:23:36] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:23:49] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[08:24:50] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:25:22] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:26:25] genofire leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[08:27:56] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[08:42:07] vogt leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[08:43:40] genofire leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[08:45:58] frainz leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[08:49:59] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[08:53:16] vanitasvitae leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:56:48] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:57:52] joekokker leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:58:17] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[08:58:48] Odin leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Client acknowledged more stanzas than sent by server (undefined-condition)
[09:02:00] fp leaves the room
[09:03:28] pztrn leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:04:01] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:05:54] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:07:23] fp leaves the room
[09:09:39] ulrich leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[09:12:52] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:14:09] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:16:11] Odin leaves the room
[09:17:47] zuglufttier leaves the room
[09:21:31] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:26:14] aditya_borikar leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[09:27:19] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[09:29:41] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[09:31:01] zash leaves the room: Disconnected: No route to host
[09:35:44] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:39:03] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[09:44:57] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[09:45:30] Marzanna leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[09:47:35] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:47:53] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room
[09:48:25] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[09:51:54] Alacer leaves the room
[09:56:36] <Holger> Oh Lua support isn't bundled with Nginx.
[09:57:30] <zash> Huh, then what's the point of nginx?
[09:59:11] genofire leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[09:59:59] <zinid> Holger, typical unix way 🙂
[10:00:00] Odin leaves the room
[10:00:00] Odin leaves the room
[10:00:13] <Holger> I think I'll stick to Perl then.
[10:00:38] <zinid> to Perl6?
[10:00:46] <Holger> Hah.
[10:01:10] <Holger> In 20 years maybe.
[10:01:34] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:01:54] <zinid> Larry will be dead by that time 🙁
[10:02:39] Licaon_Kter leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[10:07:07] Man_Life leaves the room: Logged out
[10:18:25] sindrake leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[10:18:54] 404 leaves the room
[10:24:28] zash leaves the room
[10:25:44] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:27:53] lorddavidiii leaves the room: Connection failed: timeout
[10:28:43] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[10:29:32] ThUnD3r|Gr33n® leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[10:33:52] Marzanna leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[10:39:03] ta leaves the room
[10:41:02] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:43:19] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[10:44:45] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:44:53] aditya_borikar leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[10:49:11] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:52:27] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[10:54:14] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[10:54:21] robert_mobil leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:55:00] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[10:55:46] syever leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[10:57:45] vanitasvitae leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[10:59:13] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[10:59:47] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:04:07] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:04:57] ChaosKid42 leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[11:05:24] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:17:29] Demoaccount leaves the room
[11:18:03] pprrks leaves the room
[11:18:54] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[11:19:47] ta leaves the room
[11:20:25] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:21:58] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:22:19] xinit leaves the room
[11:22:42] secret_agent leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[11:24:47] ThUnD3r|Gr33n® leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[11:26:29] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:42:10] genofire leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[11:42:45] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[11:51:18] Dominik Paulus leaves the room
[11:54:35] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[11:56:03] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[11:56:39] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[11:59:46] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:00:18] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[12:08:32] Tyler leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:12:29] genofire leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:13:55] Demoaccount leaves the room
[12:14:09] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:15:53] sindrake leaves the room
[12:16:24] Licaon_Kter leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:16:53] sindrake leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[12:18:15] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[12:19:32] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:19:54] <Holger> Haha you just gotta love this language:
> Exactly what the EXPR argument to when does is hard to describe precisely, but in general, it tries to guess what you want done. Sometimes it is interpreted as $_ ~~ EXPR, and sometimes it is not. [...] The rules are far too difficult to understand to be described here.
https://perldoc.perl.org/perlsyn.html#Switch-Statements
[12:22:22] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:22:25] <zash> "one can not be told what perl does, you have to see for yourself"
[12:22:40] <zash> inb4 perl can't be parsed
[12:23:13] Andrew Nenakhov leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[12:23:23] <Holger> Yes but elsewhere, the docs aren't as explicit about this :-)
[12:23:46] syever leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:24:07] <Holger> But I like it for not being boring.
[12:24:17] aditya_borikar leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:31:05] <Licaon_Kter> _Computers are majik_
[12:34:26] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:36:51] zuglufttier leaves the room
[12:39:38] nandhakumargdr leaves the room
[12:41:48] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[12:42:27] <zinid> being predictable is boooring
[12:43:27] <zash> turing machines are overrated
[12:46:43] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[12:49:11] frainz leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:51:30] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[12:57:08] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:00:10] syever leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:01:19] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:03:53] Akasch leaves the room
[13:06:33] fp leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:07:04] fp leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Client acknowledged more stanzas than sent by server (undefined-condition)
[13:07:39] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:08:56] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:11:45] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:12:59] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:14:51] Licaon_Kter leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:16:15] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:17:19] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:18:39] pprrks leaves the room
[13:19:46] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:21:34] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:25:47] jere leaves the room
[13:38:37] <Alacer> zash: Alot of Technology is over sold as hype wave....
[13:40:10] badlop leaves the room: Stream reset by peer
[13:40:57] Alacer leaves the room
[13:41:44] Alacer leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[13:44:44] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:53:55] Alacer leaves the room
[13:54:48] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[13:57:25] pod leaves the room
[14:05:32] vanitasvitae leaves the room
[14:10:06] pprrks leaves the room
[14:22:47] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[14:24:13] jeremy leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[14:31:15] zash leaves the room
[14:32:54] zash leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[14:34:11] <zash> Alot.bmp
[14:34:46] <zash> https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
[14:35:43] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[14:42:49] zinid leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[14:45:13] alexis leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[14:46:19] frainz leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[14:49:53] Licaon_Kter leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[14:52:44] deavmi leaves the room
[14:53:13] ChaosKid42 leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[14:56:31] ChaosKid42 leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[14:56:31] zinid leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[14:59:24] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:04:51] avb leaves the room
[15:07:22] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:09:52] Akasch leaves the room
[15:11:05] frainz leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[15:11:26] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[15:14:15] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[15:15:51] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:17:33] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:17:37] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[15:18:10] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:20:27] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:20:47] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[15:24:42] zash leaves the room: Disconnected: No route to host
[15:25:08] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[15:25:25] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:25:26] cippaciong leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[15:27:39] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:28:37] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:34:39] nandhakumargdr leaves the room
[15:37:36] debalance leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:39:31] Akasch leaves the room
[15:40:22] Marzanna leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:44:12] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:45:54] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:46:14] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:48:44] zuglufttier leaves the room
[15:49:25] Akasch leaves the room
[15:53:01] Akasch leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[15:56:05] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[15:56:21] ta leaves the room
[15:56:38] marek leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[16:01:15] ta leaves the room
[16:03:16] jeremy leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
[16:04:43] mimi89999 leaves the room
[16:05:26] Akasch leaves the room
[16:07:25] daniel leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[16:07:35] ata2001 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
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[16:20:58] <zinid> ok, I got it: MAM is shit
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[16:21:21] <zinid> we should have restricted it to a single operation: gimme last N messages
[16:21:36] <zash> Just like everything else
[16:21:41] <zinid> clear and simple and easy to cache
[16:21:56] <edhelas> MAM is shit ? damn
[16:22:01] <MattJ> zinid, ugh, but how do you know how many messages you need?
[16:22:39] <zash> Block chain of course
[16:22:51] <edhelas> <value>enough</value>
[16:22:52] <zinid> MattJ, ok, from, "N messages starting from this message"
[16:23:17] <MattJ> zinid, and how is that not what it does?
[16:23:25] <MattJ> Plus paging
[16:23:27] <zinid> it does, but it does a lot more
[16:23:28] <zash> It does more
[16:23:50] <MattJ> Well, clients that don't have any messages don't know what message to start from
[16:23:56] <MattJ> So they cannot use MAM?
[16:24:44] <zinid> ah, nevermind
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[16:27:20] <MattJ> It's a pretty simple data model: an ordered list of stanzas with an index on id and time
[16:27:46] <zinid> MattJ, yes, but I want it to be caching efficient
[16:27:50] <MattJ> There are not many operations supported, and I have actively rejected many that were requested (complex queries like, "I want to know the last 10 messages from each of my contacts")
[16:28:50] <MattJ> I'm not sure what you mean by "caching efficient"
[16:29:20] <MattJ> This same model is used in many modern protocols that do sync
[16:29:54] <zinid> how to cache range queries? Let's say you got mam request "5 messages from messsage A" and you have in cache "A,B,C,D,F" - how to know E is missing?
[16:30:20] <zinid> let's asume you cache is additionally ordered
[16:30:25] <zinid> *your
[16:30:35] <MattJ> I think that's implementation-specific, but it may make sense to only cache whole ranges
[16:31:10] <zinid> whole ranges? Will not work very good in MUC
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[16:32:04] <MattJ> What's the difference?
[16:32:40] <zinid> wut? you will cache {1,2,3,4} and {2,3,4,5} and so on? or what do you mean?
[16:33:44] <MattJ> No? I'd cache {1,2,3,4,5} in your example
[16:34:20] <zinid> yeah, how? I guess IDs in the database must be strictly monotonic?
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[16:34:44] <zinid> so you see if you have holes and cache up them if needed
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[16:35:11] <MattJ> Prosody does have a monotonic id (which is different from the id shared with the client), but most databases have this internally already
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[16:35:39] <zash> Sorta
[16:36:02] <zinid> better example: you have cached {1,2,3,4,5} and {5,6,7,8,9,10}  and the request yields into {4,5,6}
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[16:36:35] <zash> MattJ: SQL backend has one. File based variants basically rely on in-file ordering
[16:36:49] <MattJ> zinid, so two arrays of ids and a map of id->message?
[16:36:51] <zinid> yeah, seems like strictly monotonic counters is the only way to cache that
[16:38:26] <rom1dep> I like that ejabberd takes way less resources producing and sending MAM than gajim requires consuming them 🙂
[16:40:31] <zinid> yeah, when I look at how clients work I have an impression they are written by people who don't care at performance at all
[16:41:09] <zinid> even GUI is written badly: instead of bulk redrawring they redraw every message separately - and this is the main reason they slow as fuck
[16:42:19] <zinid> when the solution is very simple: keep a queue of events in GUI thread, when ready read all events from the queue, build new elements then call .render()
[16:42:23] <zash> Batched GUI update for the win
[16:42:41] <zinid> also, never render inactive tabs
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[16:45:10] <rom1dep> Huh
[16:45:24] <rom1dep> Inactive tabs? I hope there is no such thing
[16:46:09] <zinid> rom1dep, well I have a discussion in this room right now and other tabs are doing something, rendering, wtf?
[16:46:11] <zash> Chat it all tabs simultaneously
[16:46:12] <rom1dep> Like why would you carry over the memory footprint of things that can be re-rendered
[16:46:46] <zash> You suggest doing what some browsers do, save a screenshot and free all of it?
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[16:47:31] <zinid> well, yeah, I'm not a GUI guy, but I bet there are well-known technics, my point is that client devs ignore all these completely
[16:47:37] <zinid> that's why Dino is slow as shit
[16:47:45] <rom1dep> Use one buffer and indexes, when you click another tab, you clear the buffer and repopulate with the new content
[16:48:08] <zash> But shouldn't GUI toolkits do that for you?
[16:48:25] <rom1dep> How could the GUI toolkit guess it?
[16:48:27] <zinid> GUI toolking does that, I'm talking about adding new elements to the parent tab
[16:48:51] <zinid> why a client adds new elements to inactive tab?
[16:49:01] <zinid> what for? to annoy me?
[16:49:35] <zash> Yes. `vcs commit -m "add stuff to annoy zinid"`
[16:49:41] <zinid> rom1dep, from what I understand GUI tookits cache last render()
[16:50:19] <zinid> so switching between already rendered tabs is very efficient (not in Dino though)
[16:50:53] <rom1dep> Yeah, and I believe no decent GUI lib redraws invisible nodes, but if you have a component hierarchy and keep adding things to it, I don't see why the toolkit would decide not to do it
[16:51:37] <rom1dep> I should send you the bug id I opened this weekend against javafx
[16:51:37] <zinid> dunno, I tried wxwidgets only and it behaved correctly, i.e. as I expected it to behave
[16:51:43] <rom1dep> Hilarious shit
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[16:53:00] <zinid> rom1dep, I will rephrase:
> keep a queue of events in GUI thread, when *the tab is clicked* read all events from the queue, build new elements then call .render()
[16:53:11] <zinid> probably that sounds clearer
[16:53:57] <rom1dep> zinid: https://github.com/javafxports/openjdk-jfx/issues/128
[16:53:58] <zinid> or schedule it somehow, not rocket science also
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[16:55:10] <rom1dep> zinid: or keep a model of the tab, update the model, when clicking on the tab, render the model from scratch, that's not supposed to be complex-enough models to have to care about the latency
[16:59:29] <rom1dep> https://upload.tamytro.org/upload/a3849b367f4dd4cedd5ad6f64afa7645b7d4f834/rOiVLJW0wOL9WalsJnQey7b7YvTzSKSt8it155TM/minirepro.png
[17:00:08] <rom1dep> that's the level of complexity of the app that triggers this weird rendering pipeline issue
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[17:05:01] <zinid> typical GUI programming
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