Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Thursday, July 12, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[07:24:39] <daniel> I've been looking at muc sub. Does the mam support of muc sub only allow me to sync message history or can I also sync the other nodes? Like get all missed events on the affiliations node?
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[07:34:22] <daniel> including node="urn:xmpp:mucsub:nodes:affiliations" in the query doesn’t seem to work. so i guess the answer is no?
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[08:04:36] <zinid> mucsub is full of bugs
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[08:16:00] <Holger> I guess we *could* just add a store hint?
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[08:18:37] <daniel> It feels more and more like an over engineered solution to 'the push problem' than anything else
[08:19:07] <daniel> I mean it'd be nice if I could use this as an efficient way to catch up with all sorts of muc events
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[08:19:40] <daniel> But apparently I can only catch up with messages. Which I already can with mam muc
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[08:31:05] <zinid> zash,
# rm -rf /var/lib/prosody/zinid%2eddns%2enet/*
take eternity with 1M accounts and 1M rosters
[08:31:12] <zinid> SSD disk
[08:32:10] <zinid> ok, done
[08:32:22] <zinid> I didn't prepend 'time' so hard to say, but several minutes
[08:32:34] <zinid> just like MySQL's `DELETE FROM table` 🙂
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[08:33:24] <mightyBroccoli> zinid 's eternity ~ 1 min :D
[08:33:33] <zinid> I think it's 3 😀
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[08:34:22] <zinid> mightyBroccoli, zash told me that unlink(2) is faster 🙂 Seemed not to be true 😛
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[08:35:12] <mightyBroccoli> I would have guess that mv /dev/null is the fastes way but I am really not sure about that :D
[08:35:33] <Holger> On XFS it takes forever.
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[08:39:06] <mightyBroccoli> hmm maybe rsync could be a nice way. create a new empty directory and then overwrite the full directory with the empty one.
> rsync -a --delete empty_dir/    prosody/
[08:39:29] <zinid> yeah, flat file storage doesn't seem like a good solution: even if you don't like SQL it's much better to use some hand-crafted DB on top of LMDB
[08:40:01] <madmalkav> Morning
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[08:41:31] <zinid> ok, I tested Prosody a bit more and it consumes 1.6Gb on 10k with 20-item rosters and 2.4Gb on 15k with same rosters
[08:41:43] <zinid> for ejabberd it's 1Gb and 1.5Gb
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[08:44:06] <zinid> ChaosKid42, I commited new version of rtb_db, please check it on CentOS when you have some spare time
[08:45:18] <madmalkav> Finally got the info for the servers I have to prepare. Mostly sane stuff, with some annoyances in the middle I have to analyse to see how much a pain in the ass they are going to be
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[08:46:18] <zinid> madmalkav, sounds okayish 😀
[08:48:46] <madmalkav> It is better than I expected. Basically the xmpp started rolling for a really small project but the coding guys want touse that to try to sell a lot more functionality to other departments
[08:49:13] <madmalkav> So if everything goes well that will be a good amount of work and probably some money for processone too in the end
[08:50:23] <madmalkav> But fornow, basically I need to setup a server that supports everything Conversations supports. Obly weirdness is I need to setup two domains that will auth users against different LDAPs, but for everything else they should behave as if it was the same domain
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[08:52:17] <madmalkav> xmpp.domain.tld and devices.xmpp.domain.tld . The devices one will be used with a different LDAP and auth script, as they will auth with non standard stuff instead of uid / password . Like, uid / a field that holds mac address or something like that
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[08:53:42] <madmalkav> But that doesn't bother me too much as they take care of that script. I will be reading today on how to configure this so even if users come from two different domains they behave as unified as possible -i.e. same MUCs for both domains, not separate ones-
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[09:00:29] <Holger> Will the users will end up with JIDs that have different domain parts?
[09:01:30] <Holger> > basically I need to setup a server that supports everything Conversations supports.
The new default config in the repo is good at that. Except OMEMO 🙂
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[09:02:09] <Holger> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/ejabberd.yml.example
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[09:05:16] <madmalkav> The users will have JID with different domains indeed
[09:06:09] <madmalkav> Thanks for the link, will read it as soon as they stop sidetracking me with oompa loompa work
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[09:08:11] <madmalkav> Any opinions on load balancer vs SRV records?
[09:10:17] <zinid> > Except OMEMO
OMEMO is not needed for proper working of Conversations 😉
[09:10:22] <zinid> it's even detrimental
[09:10:31] <zinid> well, you know that 😉
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[09:36:00] <Holger> You have the choice between running into OMEMO issues or Conversations users running into scary pop-ups.
[09:36:14] <MattJ> How does the config affect OMEMO?
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[09:38:03] <zinid> Holger, Conversations now does some pop-ups?
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[09:38:46] <zinid> MattJ, it sets the model of "omeom node" to whitelist
[09:39:28] <zinid> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/ejabberd.yml.example#L184
[09:39:35] <zinid> probably self-explaining
[09:41:00] <Holger> zinid: I mean the warning that OMEMO can't be enabled when adding a contact. Unless the user disabled "OMEMO by default" in the settings.
[09:41:09] <MattJ> Oh, I see, it's intentionally disabled
[09:41:28] <zinid> Holger, fuck yeah
[09:41:49] <zinid> I really think there should be a server policy for this
[09:41:54] <zinid> the current situation just sucks
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[10:13:16] <madmalkav> If I set the same address for MUC rooms for the two domains, i.e. conference.domain.tld , it will make the two domains to use the same address, or that is not accepted behaviour?
[10:13:55] <zinid> same address?
[10:13:58] <zinid> IP address?
[10:14:05] <madmalkav> @#&! this people for working with two LDAPs , they only do it to avoid the work of having one properly configured one
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[10:15:57] <madmalkav> Yeah, same server, serving two domains because they are too lazy to properly merge the ldaps...
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[10:17:30] <zinid> sure, you can have the same DNS A/AAAA record for multiple (sub)domains
[10:17:36] <zinid> ejabberd doesn't care
[10:18:15] <madmalkav> 👍
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[10:25:08] <madmalkav> Ok, time to stop thinking and start deploying
[10:27:31] <zinid> you can deploy and think at the same time!
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[10:44:14] <madmalkav> I'm afraid I'm not the brightest star in the sky. I could theorize all day, get something wrong and don't discover it until I deploy and see it isn't working as I expected.
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[10:45:21] <flow> madmalkav, any particular reason you want to use xmpp.example.org instead of just example.org?
[10:45:56] <madmalkav> Yes, because company won't give us certificates for our servers to the root domain
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[10:47:29] <madmalkav> And I need two different vhosts because devices and users are on separate ldaps and we need to a) avoid posible duplicates in the jid b) run a customized script to auth stuff against the devices ldap as they do devices auth in a very non standard way
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[10:47:39] <Holger> chat.example.com
[10:47:42] <Holger> im.example.com
[10:47:50] <Holger> Looks slightly nicer :-)
[10:47:57] <madmalkav> That's why I have to setup xmpp.domain.com and devices.xmpp.domain.com
[10:49:21] <madmalkav> But users from both hosts needs to be able to comunicate, use the same mucs, etc. Basically it is an artificial division caused by a weird ldap use case
[10:49:36] <madmalkav> Holger: I don't have a saying in naming I'm afraid. I can suggest but not decide
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[10:50:48] <zinid> https://twitter.com/nuclearleb/status/1017345424716451840
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[10:52:00] <zinid> I kinda agree, SPAM is a form of Sybil attack and we have no protection due to distributed nature of the protocol
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[10:59:51] <mpo> Oh, it worked. Lovely. Is this the right place to just ask questions? I'd like to know if it is possible to run several instances of ejabberd on a single host - it might be called multi-tenant mode. Does anyone here have experience with that? If so, what do you think is the maximum number of tenants I could host?
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[11:00:33] <mpo> I know it will depend upon the hardware, I'd be interested in a rough estimation.
[11:01:16] <mpo> Is it possible to host thousands, tens of thousands?
[11:02:22] <debalance> until you run out of tcp ports ;)
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[11:04:01] <Holger> mpo: Why not have a single instance host multiple domains?
[11:04:46] <Holger> mpo: For tens of thousands of instances you might have to buy a memory stick or two :-)
[11:05:21] <mpo> I happen to own an extra memory stick :)
[11:05:34] <zinid> Yeah, such setup would be profoundly expensive
[11:05:39] <mpo> ...or two
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[11:06:23] <mpo> But would it be possible to host that amount of domains?
[11:06:47] <zinid> Yes, the only problem would be startup time
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[11:07:34] <zinid> It will take several minutes to start
[11:07:42] <mpo> Alright, I'll have a look at it then. What are the best desktop clients you know?
[11:07:44] <zinid> Can be improved though
[11:07:55] <mpo> That sounds good.
[11:08:16] <zinid> mpo: no "best" I am aware of, only somewhat usable
[11:08:41] <zinid> Gajim or Dino
[11:09:00] <zinid> They suck, but that's our xmpp reality
[11:09:10] <mpo> Then we probably know the same. XMPP didn't'take off due to the lack of clients, not servers.
[11:09:31] <zinid> mpo: at least there is decent Android client...
[11:09:39] <mpo> You mean Xabber?
[11:09:44] <zinid> Conversations
[11:10:00] <mpo> Is it free software?
[11:10:06] <zinid> mpo: GPL
[11:10:22] <zinid> It had fdroid packages
[11:10:26] <zinid> Has
[11:11:27] <mpo> Alright. It seems the world needs a desktop client.
[11:11:52] <mpo> I'm making a list, checking it twice.
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[11:32:12] <zuglufttier> Regarding features gajim is the best desktop client.
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[12:57:18] <mpo> So, there's Swiften and gloox. Gloox doesn't seem to support end-to-end encryption. Do you know any other libraries? C++ is the preference.
[12:57:59] <madmalkav> You have a list of libraries in xmpp.org
[12:58:28] <madmalkav> I don't think there are libraries other than the ones listed there
[12:59:00] <mpo> Oh, thank you.
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[13:03:38] <Holger> There are a lot more, but I'm not aware of more full-featured C++ libraries.
[13:04:33] <Holger> Until some time ago this list was endless, and then it was shortened with the goal of ditching outdated ones.
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[13:06:13] <madmalkav> Well, yeah, that was what I tried to mean, no more *up to date* ones
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[13:17:00] <Holger> https://github.com/qxmpp-project/qxmpp
[13:17:20] <Holger> Never heard of this. Seems to be not completely dead.
[13:21:07] <mpo> Yea, I've been looking at qxmpp. No matter where you look, there's a lot of work to be done.
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[13:27:26] <Holger> gloox and Swiften look okay-ish to me. They're missing MAM but that's not rocket science. But I didn't use them myself.
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[13:28:35] <Holger> I heard good things about Babbler (Java) and aioxmpp / Slixmpp (both Python).
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[13:34:20] <Holger> And Smack (Android / Java) ...
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[13:39:16] <mpo> I don't know, I was just trying to find inspiration. And if you want to offer a service, you simply need a functional client. I'll have to talk with the devs first.
[13:46:01] <madmalkav> Seems for what I want to do, perhaps easier is configure muc only on main domain and for secondary domains set mod_disco so it discover and uses main domain muc
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[14:21:47] <madmalkav> I'll really love to see a real config file for a company that have several domains
[14:24:05] <Holger> madmalkav:
hosts:
  - "one.example.com"
  - "two.example.com"
[14:24:36] <Holger> madmalkav: That's it.  The rest is special cases such as running mod_muc only on one of them, which you can do the way you described.
[14:25:38] <madmalkav> Probably I'm overthinking it, you are right.
[14:26:41] <Holger> No I can imagine you need/want special cases.  But looking at other companies' special cases might not help :-)
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[15:52:23] <zinid> on CentOS gcc is using ANSI C by default, great
[15:52:30] <zinid> in 2018...
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[15:53:59] <zash> I've found that one wants to specify the standard one wishes to follow
[15:54:12] <zash> So CC="gcc -std=c99" or whatever
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[15:55:55] <deavmi> > I've found that one wants to specify the standard one wishes to follow
> So CC="gcc -std=c99" or whatever
Just do this zinid
[15:56:14] <zinid> deavmi, already did
[15:56:47] <zinid> and actually adopted my code to be ANSI compliant, lmao
[15:57:18] <zinid> but this is ridiculous of course
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[15:58:28] <edhelas> -version jkingweb.ca
[15:58:39] <edhelas> mhhh
[15:58:44] <zinid> edhelas, use !
[15:58:49] <edhelas> !version jkingweb.ca
[15:58:53] <Servant> edhelas: There was an error requesting jkingweb.ca's version doesn't reply to version requests (No module is handling this query)
[15:59:01] <edhelas> damn
[16:00:36] <zinid> definitely ejabberd's reply 😉
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[19:30:32] <rom1dep> My client is in good shape. I'm almost done porting the bindings to the latest version of the GUI framework. Can get started any week from now!
[19:30:58] <zinid> rom1dep, sources or gtfo
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[19:31:29] <rom1dep> Some on GitHub, some on bitbucket
[19:31:57] <zinid> fuck consistency, it's overrated
[19:33:50] <rom1dep> Totally agree!
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[20:45:33] <deavmi> Some on ftp
[20:45:46] <deavmi> Some available over XMODEM
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[20:51:30] <rom1dep> and of course, over DCC
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[20:53:28] <zinid> UCCP
[20:53:36] <zinid> Or how it was called
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[20:53:48] <zinid> UUCP maybe
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[20:59:34] <Holger> Yes!
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[21:01:13] <Licaon_Kter> zinid: Russia ❤️ Fidonet
[21:01:36] <zash> Sneakernet
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[21:04:58] <zinid> Licaon_Kter: you know too much about russia
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[22:06:04] <madmalkav> My god, fidonet. Am I in History MUC?
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