Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Wednesday, February 13, 2019< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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[00:23:37] <rom1dep> Isn't the conclusion here that we should just give up and go for everything webrtc? Concerns about client quality and standards compatibility boil down to just having a browser nearby...
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[07:46:22] <jonny> Nextcloud talk is interesting but I have never tested it,  and don't know if it works  between multiple servers
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[07:48:57] <SouL> It does according to them
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[07:52:25] <zinid> rom1dep: webrtc is just an RTP+ICE stack in a browser, you still need signaling
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[07:56:50] <Holger> SouL: It does?
[07:58:46] <SouL> Holger, oh, not yet apparently... My bad :) https://github.com/nextcloud/spreed
it is there, in the 'Federated calls' link
[07:59:03] <Holger> SouL: https://github.com/nextcloud/spreed/issues/21 sounds like they're still pondering how to reinvent the wheel.
[07:59:32] <SouL> hehe
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[08:01:09] <Holger> I think https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/ojsxc actually works okay (if you have STUN/TURN, as usual).
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[08:41:05] <zinid> I didn't quite get from the links what nextcloud is trying to do
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[08:44:27] <SouL> I use it to talk with my family, couldn't be more happier, although I wish I had some easy inteagration with Conversations or any other XMPP aplication
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[08:52:31] <rom1dep> What does signaling mean in this context?
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[08:55:55] <SouL> rom1dep, establish a connection between participants
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[09:14:46] <Holger> rom1dep: Using WebRTC is fine but doesn't magically solve the problematic parts.
[09:16:35] <Holger> zinid: Nextcloud now includes this 'Talky' (aka 'spreed') thing.  That's simple chat + A/V done from scratch.  And now they're wondering how to add federation support.
[09:17:39] <Holger> zinid: The other link was osjxc, a Nextcloud plugin for chat + A/V via XMPP (that's https://www.jsxc.org from Marcel Waldvogel & friends, you might now him from our issue tracker / standards@).
[09:19:16] <edhelas> it's always one to one webrtc no ?
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[09:22:27] <Holger> edhelas: Jitsi Meet/Videobridge supports conferences with WebRTC.  And I think the rest of the WebRTC world does conferences too (no idea how).
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[09:23:51] <zinid> > That's simple chat + A/V done from scratch.
Yeah, so they just lie saying they don't reinvent a wheel
[09:24:06] <Holger> Yup.
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[09:26:27] <zinid> > What does signaling mean in this context?
rom1dep: there are always two parts: signaling and media. simply put: signaling is when you make a call and the phone rings, when you accept the call you start the media part.
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[09:27:38] <zinid> so with webrtc everybody re-invents signaling (typically via web elements)
[09:27:50] <edhelas> yup
[09:28:14] <madmalkav> Morning guys. One last time to try to understand http upload quotas before I open an issue on github: if I have a soft quota of 10, a hard quota of 12, no max size limit set on the server, a user that have not previously uploaded any file uploads a file bigger than 12, what is the expected behaviour?
[09:28:50] <Holger> rom1dep: https://bloggeek.me/siganling-protocol-webrtc/
[09:29:29] <Holger> madmalkav: I think it will be accepted.
[09:29:31] <SouL> XMPP fanatics, nice
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[09:30:01] <Holger> madmalkav: I think I'd close an issue with 'wontfix' :-P
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[09:30:42] <Holger> madmalkav: Rejecting an upload in this corner case goes against the logic of the quota module, and I don't want to add complexity to support weird setups.
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[09:31:19] <madmalkav> I'm not saying ejabberd is doing it wrong, I just want to understand what is the expected behaviour so I can make my configuration accordingly
[09:31:21] <Holger> madmalkav: If anything I could spit out a warning if the quota is below 'max_size' or something.
[09:32:13] <Holger> madmalkav: The idea is to never reject uploads based on quota, but to just delete old files until you have enough room for the new file.
[09:32:36] <madmalkav> Thanks for the clarification. I will modify my files accordingly
[09:33:05] <Holger> Just specify a 'max_size' smaller than or equal to the quota.
[09:33:34] <madmalkav> by the way, load tests with RTB went great, a vhost with 4 vcpus and 24gb ram was able to manage 10k users sending messages to other users and p2p each 60 seconds, with TLS, http_upload, ... enabled
[09:33:43] <madmalkav> Holger: will do as you suggest
[09:34:06] <madmalkav> that same machine running the postgresql DB and an almost idling RabbitMQ instance
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[09:34:55] <madmalkav> 10k was a little on the limit, but I was asked to provide infrastructure for 5k users, and I have two nodes than can manage almost 10k, so I'm pretty sure it will take some time before I need to add server power 🙂
[09:35:12] <zinid> madmalkav: 24gb looks like an overkill 😁
[09:35:44] <zinid> wut, it ate up all 24gb? 😳
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[09:37:22] <madmalkav> I just learned that if you try to drag and drop an image to Converse, it won't send it and it will un,load converse and load the image 🙂
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[09:39:11] <Holger> Drag'n'drop?  C'mon this is still an XMPP client!
[09:39:28] <Holger> (So modern web clients typically support this?  Magic!)
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[09:39:31] <zinid> > XMPP fanatics, nice
SouL:
yeah, the dude gave labels to everyone
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[09:41:11] <SouL> yeah hehe
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[09:43:01] <madmalkav> https://imgur.com/a/xZIk9rl
[09:43:04] <zinid> you're not a fanatic only when you use webshit and reinvent wheels
[09:43:36] <SouL> true :)
[09:43:39] <madmalkav> blanked an internal username because corporate paranoia
[09:44:01] <madmalkav> that is the output of top while running with 10k users
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[09:44:21] <madmalkav> as I said, TLS, http_upload, .... Only thing disabled I think it was proxy65
[09:44:40] <madmalkav> about 12 MUCs or so, users config to send messages to other users and MUCs every 60 seconds
[09:44:55] <zinid> madmalkav: postgres eating ram 😳
[09:45:03] <madmalkav> Ah, and message size to 1024
[09:45:21] <madmalkav> yeah, I found another annoyance with postgresql: if you have a hot standby setup
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[09:45:27] <madmalkav> it generates archivelogs like CRAZY
[09:45:29] <edhelas> zinid what do you think of guys that are using web shit on top of xmpp ? 🤔
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[09:45:49] <madmalkav> another point to try to get my company to buy commercial version, so we get p1db or whatever it is called
[09:45:52] <zinid> edhelas: lunatics 😁
[09:46:52] <zinid> madmalkav: probably just tuning postgres? I wonder why it eats so much 🤔
[09:47:17] <madmalkav> I can't. Remember, big company, separate DB department
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[09:47:36] <madmalkav> I suppose it is related to the hot standby thing anyway
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[09:48:24] <madmalkav> at the moment the DB is the SPOF of my deploy, and I would love to move to something that works active-active , without archivelogs -they don't make sense on this scenario at all
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[09:49:39] <zinid> madmalkav: anyway the memory and CPU consumption of ejabberd is pretty much normal in your scenario. In practice I expect it will eat less, because users don't send messages and moreso files once a minute 😀
[09:50:55] <madmalkav> my users will be industrial applications sending notifications to blue collar workers cells. I have to expect in a period of high work load or when and incident happens the traffic will have spikes
[09:51:34] <zinid> madmalkav: ah, ok. Well seems like you're ready then 😉
[09:51:37] <madmalkav> also, as I said, expected usage is 5k over two nodes, so I'm sooooo sure we are more than covered on the resources area
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[09:52:11] <madmalkav> thanks to you guys, this chat have been incredibly supportive during all this months. Free beer for you guys if you ever come to northwest Spain
[09:52:50] <zinid> madmalkav: 👍
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[10:31:49] <Licaon_Kter> Moar SIP adventures....
baresip can call and text both baresip and Jami
Jami can't call, can't text, but can answer and can see text received
While I can answer, there is no sound....so...do I need to enable stun/turn now?
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[10:33:27] <zinid> Licaon_Kter: oh you're progressing 😁
[10:34:04] <zinid> not sure about turn, but if sip is unencrypted you can tcpflow the shit
[10:34:21] <zinid> you can see ip addresses there
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[11:08:33] <Licaon_Kter> Ok, so I have sound...with a delay...
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[11:10:38] <Licaon_Kter> So it just works...lol...
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[11:26:25] <zinid> yeah, sip has exceptional level of fiddling 😁
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[11:39:07] <Licaon_Kter> Actually it had none...
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[11:53:23] <ta> Licaon_Kter, what resources do you use to fiddle around with SIP? Do you plan to publish your findings somewhere?
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[12:00:19] <Licaon_Kter> Resources? ta I enabled mod_sip, setup ports, setup DNS SRV and started baresip, there is no finding, I've just read docs.ejabberd.im lol
What was special is the auth limitation, I use (surprise) SCRAM, so I've setup a host in a subdomain (sip.mydomain.tld) for SIP.
I'll make a gist or something after I'm done messing with it.
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[13:27:04] <Licaon_Kter> Linphone also works in TCP mode, text, sound and ZRTP.
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[13:40:31] <ta> Licaon_Kter, yeah that answered my question exactly. I am quite surprised ejabberd offers a complete sip server. I thought it was just basic stuff.
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[13:48:24] <zinid> ta: sip "server" without media relay is rather simple
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[13:55:32] <ta> so what goes through ejabberd then? _session initiation_ probably and everything else is c2c/p2p?
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[14:01:26] <Licaon_Kter> zinid: so I should enable stun/turn too then?
[14:01:42] <Licaon_Kter> Linphone can't start video so maybe that's a sign.
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[14:16:43] <zinid> ta: yes, signaling only: SIP and SDP offer/answer
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[14:17:21] <zinid> Licaon_Kter: yeah, but authentication is hard in turn, set it anonymous so far
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[19:42:16] <jonny> Is it normal that it is Impossible to change the avatar of a muc that I created by Myself?
[19:42:53] <jonny> The mix of the 3 other participants is shown
[19:43:16] <jonny> With conversations?
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[19:46:37] <jonny> No log is created in ejabberd after publishing new avatar through conversations log Level info..
[19:46:50] <Licaon_Kter> jonny: works here, it doesn't show if you exit the room and come back?
[19:47:46] <jonny> 👍🙂
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[19:48:01] <jonny> Just doesn't refresh
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[19:51:34] <jonny> Conversations needs some small improvements in my opinion.
- update group avatar without the need to exit an re-enter the room 😄
- possibility to sent image and text in one message
- possibility to view user avatar in fullscreen
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[19:54:04] <Licaon_Kter> jonny: I didn't need to exit, dt applied right away. Are you on 2.3.12 ?
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[19:54:35] <jonny> No
[19:54:42] <jonny> 2.3.8 fcr
[19:54:49] <jonny> Got it from Fdroid
[19:55:13] <Licaon_Kter> Update your repos, don't you gen updates in your F-Droid client?
[19:55:18] <Licaon_Kter> *get
[19:55:34] <jonny> Hmm don't know
[19:55:49] <jonny> Permissions i guess
[19:56:36] <jonny> Fdroid tells me it is the latest version...
[19:59:22] <Licaon_Kter> jonny: pull to update repos
[20:03:09] <jonny> Updating... 🙂
[20:05:36] <Licaon_Kter> jonny: 2.3.12...read it
https://github.com/siacs/Conversations/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md
;)
[20:06:02] <jonny> Had to activate additionally repos in fdroid
[20:06:06] <jonny> Thx
[20:06:08] <jonny> 🙂
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[20:10:17] <Licaon_Kter> jonny: it's in the default repo...F-Droid, all the others are "additional". Also, pls, don't enable Archive.
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[20:11:39] <jonny> Thx deactivated archive repos
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