Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Thursday, February 14, 2019< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[08:38:20] <zinid> Licaon_Kter, did you manage to try TURN?
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[09:17:51] <Licaon_Kter> zinid: not yet
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[10:01:02] <flow> zinid, looking forward to your feedback on https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-February/035805.html, let me know what you think. (I already talked with Holger about this)
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[10:02:56] <zinid> flow, did you read my last protoxeps?
[10:03:04] <zinid> namely, EAX-CAR
[10:03:12] <zinid> ah, EAX
[10:03:33] <zinid> https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/eax.html
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[10:04:31] <zinid> and https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/eax-car.html (the follow-up, procedural)
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[10:06:09] <Holger> flow: I forgot to ask in Brussels, how's the workflow for a second device?  New token?  Master password from the back of the keyboard?
[10:06:37] <zinid> Holger, I just think to have some limit, like 5 certs per user
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[10:06:58] <zinid> when reaching that limit (unlikely), some of the certificates must be revoked
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[10:07:04] <flow> Holger, the latter appears sensible, but the former could also work (but requires probably someone to generate the token for you)
[10:07:43] <flow> zinid, I saw those ProtoXEPs but did not had a close look yet. Does one of them specifiy a mechanism for clients to send a certificate signing request to the server?
[10:08:01] <zinid> flow, no, but it's Planned (TM)
[10:08:11] <flow> zinid, then we should possibly consider teaming up :)
[10:08:13] <zinid> I don't actually find it terribly complex
[10:08:35] <flow> I never said it is, it is just a matter of coming up with a specification
[10:08:41] <zinid> yup
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[10:08:52] <flow> And how to deal with rouge clients
[10:09:21] <zinid> to deal with roug clients I suggest just to get rid of local server authentication, honestly
[10:09:28] <zinid> delegate that to a few central authorities
[10:09:39] <zinid> I don't see other solutions to solve all our problems ;)
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[10:10:05] <zinid> *local server registration
[10:10:12] <flow> I was thinking more about a client which issues a ton of CSR to the server (for whatever reason).
[10:10:39] <zinid> yes, Sybil, that's what exactly I'm talking about
[10:10:54] <flow> I also believe that it would be nice if clients could request a list of all valid certificates for their accounts together with a timestamp when the certificate was used last time
[10:11:12] <flow> so that clients are able to delete old/unused certificate
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[10:11:29] <flow> but maybe the server should (additionally) invalidte certificates which haven't been used in a while
[10:11:34] <flow> *invalidate
[10:11:43] <zinid> I think you cannot just delete, you must revoke them
[10:11:56] <flow> that, yes
[10:11:59] <zinid> this complicates things of course
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[10:12:29] <flow> anyway, if you are willing to write a (prototypical) server implementation, I would be happy to provide the smack side ;)
[10:12:47] <zinid> sure I will
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[10:12:56] <zinid> I'm waiting for the Council approvements and criticism
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[10:13:19] <zinid> once approved I will write the protocol, of course we can coordinate
[10:13:50] <zinid> flow, please consider at least reading #intro of EAX protoxep
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[10:14:55] <zinid> what you suggested in the email, as I understand it, is just an addition to the picture, i.e. the signing protocol and the registration flow
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[10:24:38] <zinid> flow, btw, did you see https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0257.html (deferred)?
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[10:25:44] <zinid> it's a bit weird though :)
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[10:47:27] <flow> zinid, ahh, I was anticipating that a xep like that would exist
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[11:09:53] <flow> ok, so xep257 does not use CSRs (which was actually the first design in mind), but besides that it is pretty close to what I have in mind (minus requireing unique names for the certificate but instead listing the time when the cert was last used)_
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[11:18:26] <flow> zinid, ok, i've read eax and eax-car. the main issue is that eax certifcates use case is e2e, which probably means one certificate per account, wheras my use case strives to have one certificate per device. So it appears I can't use the eax certificates with SASL EXTERNAL?
[11:18:42] <flow> but maybe I'am wrong
[11:19:41] <flow> cause I don't know enough about RELOAD
[11:20:46] <flow> So the big question is, would there a difference between your xep-eax-sign and the xep I have mind
[11:21:45] <flow> I also found no answer how you determine if a CA is authoritative for a particular XMPP domain
[11:22:03] <flow> (but that is probably unrelated right now)
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[11:37:31] <zinid> flow, it's per device and see the requirements:
https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/eax.html#gen-req
[11:39:30] <zinid> so it's supposed to be compatible with sasl external
[11:40:00] <zinid> > I also found no answer how you determine if a CA is authoritative for a particular XMPP domain
Its certificate is associated with this domain
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[11:54:39] <flow> zinid, and who is asserting that association?
[11:55:08] <flow> ok, so s/xep-eax-sign/xep-x509-sign/?
[11:55:25] <zinid> flow, the top-level CA
[11:55:27] <flow> cause the CSR XEP is not really end to end specific
[11:56:26] <zinid> flow, the XEP-SIGN is supposed to be working with either direct server or any root CA's server
[11:56:26] <flow> zinid, and the association is put where in the cert? and does it automatically include subdomains?
[11:56:43] <zinid> flow, it's put into SAN, no wildcards are not allowed
[11:56:55] <zinid> but I'm not yet sure about wildcards
[11:57:03] <flow> kk
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[14:02:38] <Freyskeyd> Hello
[14:02:49] <Freyskeyd> Any idea of a release date for the next one?
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[14:31:19] <zinid> Freyskeyd, February, most likely the end of.
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[14:36:57] <Freyskeyd> ok thanks!
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[15:23:36] <flow> I've attempted to update my test ejabberd from 17.04 to 18.09 (gentoo). But now I see: CRASH REPORT Process <0.62.0> with 0 neighbours exited with reason: no function clause matching lists:map(#Fun<gen_iq_handler.4.54217754>, <<>>) line 1238 in application_master:init/4 line 134
[15:24:25] <flow> The ebuild is from an overlay, could be caused by the ebuild, but otoh people report that it works for them
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[15:27:40] <zinid> looks like a weird configuration problem
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[15:27:57] <zinid> flow, there should be more info in crash.log
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[15:32:21] <flow> zinid, like http://paste.debian.net/1067806/ ?
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[15:55:16] <zinid> flow, yes, show the modules section please
[15:55:23] <zinid> privately
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[16:19:32] <pitchum> hello there, I'm deploying ejabberd + postgresql + ldap and I encounter this message in logs :
> error] <0.108.0> Killed 1 process(es) consuming more than 7314 message(s) each
http://paste.debian.net/plainh/899cce2c
can someone give me a hint of how to debug this?
[16:20:14] <Licaon_Kter> pitchum: how many users? What specs you have?
[16:20:19] <Licaon_Kter> *hardware
[16:22:23] <pitchum> ldap has 900+ accounts but currently only 3 test users connected
[16:22:51] <pitchum> this is a VM with 2VCPUs and 4Gb of RAM
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[16:25:01] <pitchum> is there a way to "visualize" those 29257 messages queued?
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[16:27:40] <pitchum> I wonder what those messages are... maybe presence messages (I'm using mod_shared_roster_ldap, so every user has approx 900 contacts in their rosters)
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[16:37:09] <Licaon_Kter> pitchum: loglevel 4?
[16:38:00] <pitchum> hmmm ok, I'll do that but I'll have to wait for another occurrence of the problem
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[16:56:41] <Steven Roose> https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server/issues/631
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[16:57:15] <Steven Roose> Perhaps some people with know-how could offer to help them out if they have questions.
[16:58:22] <zinid> pitchum, I think there is little you can do if you use shared ldap roster
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[17:04:16] <zinid> flow, I'm surprised how everyone wants to rely on some webshits like oauth or self-crafted protocols with tokens/keys/signatures
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[17:04:45] <zinid> oauth is just shit, I won't poke it with 19 meter pole
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[17:06:31] <flow> I can't really comment on that besides that two people are hopefully not everyone. ;)
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[17:06:42] <flow> zinid, any ETA for the CSR xep?
[17:07:20] <flow> I wonder if I also should write up a ProtoXEP, then we can compare the ourcome of our two specs and see where we agree and disagree
[17:07:28] <flow> *outcome
[17:07:50] <zinid> flow, right after I see the voting results of the Council and Board
[17:07:56] <zinid> this will take a week or so
[17:08:24] <zinid> it's pointless for me to do even more effort if they vote -1
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[17:09:29] <zinid> as I already wrote 3 XEPs, that's more than my monthly quota :D
[17:10:32] <flow> true :)
[17:11:19] <zinid> on the other hand maybe we indeed can reuse ACME, I need to check that
[17:12:02] <zinid> I personally strongly oppose to invent wheels
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[17:13:40] <zinid> but as I see ACME it's designed to be fully automated? I don't see how this can be used in the case of end-users, because a user somehow needs to prove an identity, otherwise this won't be Sybil resistant
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[17:14:25] <zinid> and allowing to create massive accounts is a dead end, we all know that this will end up with spam and ddos attacks
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