Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, February 15, 2019< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[07:04:06] <rom1dep> > rom1dep: there are always two parts: signaling and media. simply put: signaling is when you make a call and the phone rings, when you accept the call you start the media part.
zinid: Holger: ok. As usual I know nothing, but that seems like an easy thing to do? I mean, your device sending a "special" message meaning "hey, 'm calling U!" And the Receiver device deciding to blink and agitate in response. Signaling doesn't seem to be the hard end of the problem, isn't it?
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[07:14:46] <Licaon_Kter> rom1dep: sip, jingle, do this part, right?
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[07:15:50] <rom1dep> I assume so
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[09:30:19] <zinid> rom1dep, until you need something more than just "ring", for example, on-hold, call transfer, and so on. There are also some tricky things you need to consider, like "busy deadlock" - when two parties call at the same time and both get "busy" signal.
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[09:33:12] <zinid> those things are also not addressed in Jingle, we're yet to learn these cases when we start adopting Jingle crap
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[09:43:14] <rom1dep> zinid: but the problem field is well known and understood thanks to SIP's widespread use, and it should be doable to address a subset of its use cases that are relevant and common for XMPP.
Seems easier that way than adding a new side-channel/protocol that is completely "alien" and would bring new dependencies/specific knowledge/baggage
[09:44:40] <zinid> rom1dep, address? really? how many XEPs will this take and who will write them?
[09:45:02] <zinid> OMEMO is completely alien protocol, did that stop anyone?
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[09:46:05] <zinid> with Jingle we also limit XMPP companies to provide solutions to enterprise where SIP telephony is typically adopted
[09:46:30] <zinid> so I disagree with "seems easier"
[09:46:36] <rom1dep> perhaps OMEMO is alien but falls naturally in as a complement of XMPP, while SIP is laregly overlapping? dunno really.
[09:47:33] <zinid> SIP is overlapping because IETF should have banned XMPP spec in the first place, we already had SIP back then
[09:47:48] <zinid> now we have what we have
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[09:48:35] <zinid> the only strength of XMPP is community and federation, SIP is totally lacking this
[09:48:49] <zinid> (but I digress)
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[09:51:23] <rom1dep> if a "corporate"-focused XMPP company wants to provide such solution, it has to bite the bullet of SIP anyways, so that's pretty much moot.
But "consumers"/"hobby" clients would at least benefit from the easier entry point into this field by having to worry about less baggage
[09:51:47] <zinid> it's also ironical how easy we adopt HTTP (e.g. upload) despite it being an alien protocol for sure
[09:52:47] <zinid> > But "consumers"/"hobby" clients would at least benefit from the easier entry point into this field by having to worry about less baggage
Only after they invent yet another 50 XEPs to address all modern VoIP demands
[09:53:44] <zinid> we cannot even maintain existing Jingle XEPs, since they were written by Google, nobody touched them then
[09:53:56] <rom1dep> perhaps not all 50 need to be implemented to have something beneficial to the users (compared to currently "nothing")
[09:54:21] <zinid> rom1dep, sure, just not whole compliance suite needs to be implemented, but we know how this ends up
[09:54:28] <zinid> *just like
[09:55:43] <zinid> spoiler: this ends up in degraded UX
[09:55:59] <rom1dep> yeah, but OTOH the current landscape of server support doesn't look too grim, feels like we've gone leaps ahead in the past few years and I'm myself surprised by the amount of green on https://conversations.im/compliance/
[09:56:08] <rom1dep> doesn't need to be tackled all in one day, also
[09:56:55] <rom1dep> (I know I'm mixing client/server support)
[09:57:28] <zinid> server support is usually the lesser problem of XMPP, yeah
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[09:58:35] <zinid> ah, and I'm not even ranting about "hobby" clients: it's virtually impossible to write a client from scratch, the protocol became extremely fuzzy
[09:59:13] <zinid> so we should focus on libraries, but in this case client developers don't care what's under the hood
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[10:00:35] <rom1dep> agreed.
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[10:01:11] <rom1dep> yeah, if there's a good XMPP lib and a good SIP lib for each platform/programming language under the sun, that's a non-issue
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[15:33:03] <laszlovl> i'm seeing occasional memory leaks in ejabberd, the process list in the erlang shell suggests it's caused by "ejabberd_bosh:init/1" processes.
am I correct to assume that if a bosh session were to somehow get "stuck" on ejabberd's side, the ejabberd_bosh process would keep on retrieving data destined for that user, but because there's no more HTTP client on the other end to actually consume the data, the data would queue indefinitely within ejabberd_bosh and fill up all memory?
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[15:35:12] <laszlovl> haven't reproduced it yet, but there's a suspicion that such "stuck" bosh processes are caused by clients exceeding the get_max_user_sessions check
[15:36:19] <zinid> bosh...
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