Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Tuesday, May 7, 2019< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[06:37:35] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n©> Mornijg
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[06:38:43] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n©> I'd like to creat a sensor for my home automation system to get online users .. is there a ejabberd command to do that via SSH?
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[06:46:25] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n©> How would a r at command look like to get connected users for example?
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[06:55:42] <Holger> ThUnD3r|Gr33n©: `ejabberdctl connected-users`
[06:56:04] <Holger> You could also use the HTTP API if that's easier than ssh -> ejabberdctl.
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[07:09:23] <nz> > https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-bifrost/issues/53
Ok
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[07:09:47] <nz> > nz some of my config choices are highlighted here: https://gist.github.com/licaon-kter/54d4656cc753b98e1dc0d81a59a73faa
Thanks
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[07:14:21] <nz> 404.city: I think matrix is the future, instead of simply relaying like XMPP and maybe sometimes archiving without any real sense of state, matrix tries to create a solid, coherent, and truly federated network where every server stores and constantly syncs room attributes and history and with E2EE it totally makes sense. Distribute the data everywhere for a perfect consensus and then decrypt it on the client. And client settings are stored on the server so no more having to always tell it to auto download images below 10MB. Also, there is no issue with compliance, as you simply need to update and "it just works", instead of thousands of admins turning modules on [ut almost always not]. And consider they got funded by Status.IM, which does similar things but not only decentralized, but rather distributed, as it's on the ETH chain. That is pretty cool I think.
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[07:16:15] <nz> What XMPP can bring to the table are long standing and well agreed upon standards that make it so you know what happens when you do anything. If the ideas and values of XMPP are merged with the new vision of matrix, amazing things could happen I think.
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[07:17:33] <Holger> > there is no issue with compliance
https://matrix.org/docs/projects/clients-matrix#features
[07:21:40] <Holger> And yes, I do like how everything is based on server-side storage of their DAG (though the IoT guys don't like that at all).  But they managed to start from scratch without being clearly superior to XMPP, so the end result is two incompatible piles of crap.
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[07:31:26] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n©> Holger: thanks .I tried rest API call but I need application type or somewhat Can't figure out how to compose the rest API call
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[08:03:27] <nz> > https://matrix.org/docs/projects/clients-matrix#features
You're talking client side, that's just like email. I have 8 Linux mail clients that can't handle bold text. I'm talking server side.
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[08:05:51] <nz> > And yes, I do like how everything is based on server-side storage of their DAG (though the IoT guys don't like that at all).  But they managed to start from scratch without being clearly superior to XMPP, so the end result is two incompatible piles of crap.
In my experience, my contacts prefer riot because of the ease of use, reliable encryption, persistent state of things, and familiar experience between all devices [because riot although just one of the possible clients is available for most platforms and works very well, unlike 99% of xmpp clients, except for dino, which is alpha software for now but extremely promising]
[08:06:16] <nz> [talking about desktop here]
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[08:15:50] <Licaon_Kter> nz: serverside what? Who uses Matrix serverside ONLY?
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[08:17:36] <nz> The first whole issue with xmpp today IMO is the complete disconnect between servers, they're all manually deployed with random modules turned on on a good day and poorly configured. With matrix, synapse is the reference implementation and all modules are already active, install and go.
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[08:18:49] <nz> And Matrix *does* have a client that works everywhere and well, that being Riot. XMPP does not. Heck, it's impossible to have an OMEMO chat between an Android phone and an iPhone.
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[08:20:29] <Holger> > I'm talking server side.
I think the public servers chosen by new users are usually fine.  Outdated servers aren't, just as outdated Synapse versions aren't (they won't even communicate with matrix.org).
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[08:22:29] <Holger> nz: I think the #1 issue from the user's perspective is that there's no usable XMPP client for iOS, while Riot kinda works.  That's a real issue but that's very different from this "there is no issue with compliance, as you simply need to update" blah-blah.
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[08:24:37] <Holger> > In my experience, my contacts prefer riot
Over what?  On Android those who are looking for a WhatsApp alternative often prefer Conversations.  Riot is more of a Slack replacement which can be quite unintuitive for private/1:1 chat.
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[08:34:33] <Licaon_Kter> nz: only admins see servers, that's their responsability, try to run Matrix with selfsigned certs and use a year old version...
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[08:35:03] <Licaon_Kter> nz: but servers are nothing without actual users...users use...clients...monolithic means nothing if UNimplemented
[08:35:53] <Licaon_Kter> Yes Riot looks nicer that Converse, but I can host 80 users on a 256Mb RPi1...try that with Matrix
[08:36:08] <nz> >only admins see servers
That's exactly the problem. And admins don't always know what they're doing.
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[08:36:41] <nz> why would I ever use a selfsigned cert and a year old version? That's what a sysadmin would do 😉
[08:37:24] <nz> good point about lightweightedness, but going forward, I don't think that's going to be the issue
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[08:38:34] <nz> I love converse, but Riot is great on all platforms. And I don't know about adoption, but all people who I had install XMPP moved to Riot at some point down the road.
[08:38:45] <nz> Anyway, food for thought
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[08:40:38] <nz> Can I ask you if this is still accurate as the way to migrate mnesia to sql? https://www.ejabberd.im/forum/28980/migrate-mnesia-sqlserver/index.html
Does it also work with psql?
In this case I don't need to import pg.new.sql I suppose right? Create db and then import the file generated with ejabberdctl?
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[08:41:58] <Licaon_Kter> nz:
> why would I ever use a selfsigned cert and a year old version? That's what a sysadmin would do 😉
Did you hear about arewereadyyet.com ?
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[08:42:52] <Holger> nz: Yes, and yes works with Postgres.
[08:43:16] <nz> perfect you guys are so helpful thanks!
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[08:43:32] <nz> > Did you hear about arewereadyyet.com ?
Yes, funny
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[08:44:08] <Licaon_Kter> nz: what's so funny?
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[08:45:00] <nz> That noone even bothers updating even when running *the reference implementation* of a service and basically having to simply do and apt upgrade
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[08:45:19] <nz> That's all it takes me to upgrade our synapse node
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[08:46:05] <nz> And last question, pgsql_users_number_estimate yes or no?
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[08:46:17] <nz> I see it was being talked about circa 2007
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[08:46:42] <Licaon_Kter [cnvrs]> How many users do you have? 1000000 ?
[08:47:49] <Licaon_Kter [cnvrs]> nz You mean that if an admin installed the synapse package in 2017 just updating it on every release until now would have been enough? Really?
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[08:49:28] <nz> >How many users do you have? 1000000 ?
no, so i suppose it's a yes
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[08:50:19] <nz> > nz You mean that if an admin installed the synapse package in 2017 just updating it on every release until now would have been enough? Really?
Not sure about 2017, I know that we had a dormant server that we started using and we bumped it from v0.32 to v0.99 or sth with an apt upgrade
[08:50:39] <nz> And now it's live so we try and do our due diligence and keep it backed up and updated
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[08:51:05] <Licaon_Kter> Somit went from python2 to python3  without admin intervention?
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[08:51:12] <Licaon_Kter> So it went from python2 to python3  without admin intervention?
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[08:56:53] <nz> I didn't touch python so the answer is either yes or it didnt'
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[09:04:38] <nz> holger: is there a way with export2sql to command export all domains into one dump?
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[09:08:56] <nz> or can I concatenate the two dumps before importing in psql?
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[09:51:37] <Holger> nz: You need seperate databases anyway, unless you use `new_sql_schema: true`.
[09:51:53] <nz> I do use that
[09:51:56] <Holger> nz: Dunno from the top of my head whether export2sql already supports that.
[09:52:16] <Holger> If it does, then yes you can probably concatenate.
[09:52:44] <nz> I'll try that thanks!
[09:53:30] <nz> getting issues with import. If I create DB then import the export2sql, I get this: https://pastebin.com/VGBj2p1s
[09:53:30] <Holger> Just set `new_sql_schema: true` before dumping and then check the dump for `server_host` columns.
[09:54:23] <Holger> Looks like you didn't set up SQL properly before importing.
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[09:54:28] <nz> If I first import pg.new.sql and then import [which you said is wrong though I think], I instead get this: https://pastebin.com/6nZmQiCs
[09:54:28] <Holger> You need to import the schema first.
[09:54:56] <nz> Ok, misunderstood before then, thought the export of the import implied no import of pg.new.sql
[09:55:04] <Holger> So it looks like the export doesn't support the new schema yet.
[09:55:18] <nz> Ok, good to know
[09:55:24] <Holger> Did you specify `new_sql_schema: true` before running export2sql?
[09:55:39] <nz> Yes, it's default in the config now
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[09:56:32] <nz> Let me try again
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[10:00:59] <nz> Ok sorry my bad, I was simulating an upgrade between current version and new version and therefore the config hadn't been updated
[10:01:58] <nz> I'm writing a script that will take a mnesia instance, add new_sql_schema without actually enabling SQL at all, restart ejabberd, export install postgres, import, and only then upgrade fully
[10:02:04] <nz> Seems to work
[10:03:24] <nz> I just seem to have successfully imported two dumps of two domains one after the other
[10:06:00] <Holger> So it does work with `new_sql_schema: true`?
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[10:24:52] <Holger> OMG GitHub borked?
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[10:28:17] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: looks fine, why?
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[10:31:46] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: Hmm.
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[10:32:00] <Holger> > It's not just you! github.com looks down from here.
https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/github.com
[10:32:20] <Licaon_Kter> I looked in Fasthub...
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[10:33:22] <Licaon_Kter> Lol...so the looks down but clients like Fasthub load fine...
[10:33:46] <Licaon_Kter> https://www.githubstatus.com/
[10:34:12] <Holger> Ah.
[10:34:19] <Holger> Dunno FastHub.
[10:34:27] <Licaon_Kter> But github.com shows an unicorn
> no servers to process...
[10:34:34] <Holger> It's awesome I want it right now and will never go back?
[10:34:43] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: umm?
[10:35:02] <Holger> Just wondering whether to install FastHub or not.
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[10:35:29] <Holger> Seems there's no web site besides the GitHub repo so I can't look right now :-)
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[10:38:50] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: F-Droid...lol...
[10:39:14] <Licaon_Kter> *FashHub-Libre since it's a free fork of the app
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[11:42:09] <admin> How to make ejabberd allow register ?
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[11:44:24] <Holger> https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/#mod-register
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[11:45:03] <zinid> oh, again that bullshit about matrix...
[11:47:50] <admin> > https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/#mod-register
thx
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[12:49:43] <nz> > So it does work with `new_sql_schema: true`?
Yes, thank you!
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[12:50:59] <nz> > oh, again that bullshit about matrix...
Come on we need some entertainment in here ;]
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[13:07:42] <nz> If anyone's interested, this is the function I use to install PSQL and migrate from mnesia https://github.com/openspace42/aenigma/blob/master/functions#L1367
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[13:08:44] <nz> Thanks again for all the help!
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[16:43:43] <samael> Hey
[16:44:10] <reset> Sup muh negro samael
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[16:46:17] <samael> Actually wondering how I should move from mnesia to postgre
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[16:47:02] <reset> Im wondering why to do that though
[16:47:14] <reset> Since mnesia is werking
[16:47:23] <reset> But, see this:
[16:47:28] <reset> > If anyone's interested, this is the function I use to install PSQL and migrate from mnesia https://github.com/openspace42/aenigma/blob/master/functions#L1367
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[17:05:49] <reset> samael: ^
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[17:14:16] <samael> Shouldn't it be like 3 commands after psql install rather than a convoluted function?
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[17:14:47] <samael> Like create ejabbered DB, create ejabbered user and ejabberdctl to migrate?
[17:15:19] <reset> Ask nz, i havent even opened that link, neither get the reason to use psql instead of mnesia (yet)
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[17:29:32] <nz> > Sup muh negro samael
Thanks for having a sense of humor
[17:30:26] <nz> mnesia is limited to 2GB and is definitely a no-no in clusters apparently
[17:31:54] <reset> Hmm thanks for explaining 🤔
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[17:32:41] <reset> Still i dont think i will face a problem w it, bookmarked your solution though just in case
[17:32:48] <nz> > Shouldn't it be like 3 commands after psql install rather than a convoluted function?
That is exactly the problem I try to solve with automation, they always stay it's three steps, but you need to then do this, and then that, and then if you already have a DB you need to import it, but the export needs the new schema format before you do it, and so on and so forth
[17:33:46] <nz> > Still i dont think i will face a problem w it, bookmarked your solution though just in case
I'm a complete noob in terms of ejab workings behind the scenes, that's why we have the devs here that kindly explain how it all works to us
[17:34:18] <nz> zinid was talking about the reasons
[17:35:50] <reset> > zinid was talking about the reasons
Hmm, yet he decided to go for mnesia 🤔
[17:36:03] <reset> s/for/with
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[17:55:46] <nz> Holger: sorry, it appears to me that .erlang.cookie still is a file in /var/lib/ejabberd even with psql enabled, is that correct?
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[17:55:59] <Holger> Yup.
[17:56:31] <nz> Ok thanks, so /var/lib/ejabberd with psql enabled is super stripped down in functionality but does still do something
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[17:58:23] <nz> Which leads me to the next question. Two nodes, I wipe the second one clean, empty out var-lib-ejab. I need to cluster the second one with the first one, do I still import pg.new.sql on the second one before I join?
[17:59:59] <nz> Because that's what I did, and when I join node 1 from node 2 it works, and node 1 recognized the second node if I list_cluster, but DBs are not syncing, DB1 is 336K, DB2 Is 60, user created on node 1 shows as unauthorized if trying to log in on node 2
[18:00:41] <nz> I should upgrade to Enterprise support guys I know ;]
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[18:05:41] <Holger> nz: ejabberd doesn't magically cluster SQL backends, that would have to be done on the SQL side.
[18:06:37] <nz> No way, I thought it had to be more complex than I thought. So it does with mnesia, but not with SQL of course.
[18:07:53] <Holger> nz: Right.
[18:08:17] <nz> so if SQL is syncing on its own behind the scenes what's the difference between two separate instances with same config and same independently synced DBs, and two instances with same config, same DBs, *and* ejabberd cluster enabled?
[18:09:41] <Holger> The difference is sync of runtime data. Client 1 can connect to node A, client 2 to node B, and they will be able to talk to each other, and so on.
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[18:14:09] <samael> Holger: love the short one sentence "executive" summary responses, even if they might not actually convey all the information required
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[18:28:27] <nz> Not sure I fully grasp the situation but I'm reassured there's a difference, and really appreciate the help. Will try clustering psql tomorrow. Thanks again!
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[18:34:08] <Holger> nz@example.com is connected to one node, holger@example.com to the other. Now holger@example.com sends a message to nz@example.com. If the nodes weren't clustered, the message wouldn't be routed to nz's node but queued into the offline spool of holger's node.
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[18:35:34] <Holger> (That's just the most obvious of many such szenarios. Think remote servers connected to one of the nodes, different clients of the same user being connected to different nodes and modifying e.g. the user's contact list, and so on.)
[18:35:46] <Holger> (That's just the most obvious of many such scenarios. Think remote servers connected to one of the nodes, different clients of the same user being connected to different nodes and modifying e.g. the user's contact list, and so on.)
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[23:06:55] <Licaon_Kter> The father of Erlang died?
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