Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Sunday, May 10, 2020< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[00:14:29] <Alacer> Steven Roose: Are you working similar to snikket but for ejabberd...
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[00:15:21] <Alacer> Well Package Management for the latest release of ejabberd in NixOS may well have to be managed...
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[02:21:21] Jodok is now known as joekokker
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[04:18:20] sumpfralle leaves the room: Rechner geht in den Ruhezustand
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[06:37:15] <Licaon_Kter> Holger: retesting coturn with your disco snippet...added external-ip....tls works...removed external-ip...tls works...
[06:37:25] <Licaon_Kter> Wtf...anyway ejabberd still doesn't
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[08:07:08] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: So you're now offering STUN-only on 3478 and TLS-only on 5349 without sslh involved?
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[08:07:54] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: If so maybe give me a test account and I'll have a look.
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[08:10:44] <Licaon_Kter> I've enabled back non-TLS for now, aka working ones.
Will ping you back when I can break it :))
[08:11:38] <Licaon_Kter> > Licaon_Kter: So you're now offering STUN-only on 3478 and TLS-only on 5349 without sslh involved?
I was always offering that, SSLH is not the issue
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[08:47:25] <marc> Holger, do I need to reload or even restart coTURN when the cert changes?
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[08:48:48] <Holger> marc: I wondered myself, from a quick look at the code you must restart.
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[08:49:07] <Holger> Did I mention I don't really like Coturn that much? 🙂
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[08:49:43] <Holger> They do handle SIGHUP but only for re-opening log files.
[08:49:44] <marc> Holger, from what I understand coturn is necessary for some cabel dslite(?) setups?
[08:50:16] <marc> Holger, the source code doesn't look that good IMO :)
[08:50:35] <Holger> marc: Yeah we've seen cases where it seems libwebrtc doesn't play with v4-only TURN (despite the ISP doing 6to4).
[08:51:22] <Holger> marc: Indeed. Which is my main motivation to add v6 to ejabberd's TURN and maybe release it stand-alone.
[08:51:53] <marc> Holger, yep, I would really appreciate that :)
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[08:52:12] <Holger> I also had a look at restund, I think it's nicer than Coturn but seems kinda dead.
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[08:52:37] <Holger> (Also had a look at Stuntman and others but they look crappy as well.)
[08:53:03] <marc> I really would prefer an Erlang application than a not-so-well-looking C application :D
[08:53:50] <Holger> 🙂
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[08:54:51] <Holger> I'd also like to do some load comparisons. I mean it does look like Coturn people put some effort into optimizations.
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[08:56:09] <Holger> (Just out of curiosity. It's not like I expect to ever saturate a TURN server I operate myself. Modulo DoS.)
[08:57:46] <Holger> > I really would prefer an Erlang application than a not-so-well-looking C application :D
Yeah and I really like ours.  Nice straightforward zinid code 🙂
[08:58:11] <marc> Holger, isn't the relaying itself something that can processed by the OS?
[08:59:21] <Holger> No, the TURN server must re-pack the packets.
[08:59:51] <marc> Oh, okay. Though about something similar to sendfile()
[09:00:00] <Holger> No chance.
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[09:02:03] <Holger> It's asymmetric: There's a TURN client and it's peer. The client sends/receives the traffic wrapped into STUN/TURN packets. The peer reads/writes the unwrapped traffic from/to a UDP socket as-is.
[09:02:13] <Holger> It's asymmetric: There's a TURN client and its peer. The client sends/receives the traffic wrapped into STUN/TURN packets. The peer reads/writes the unwrapped traffic from/to a UDP socket as-is.
[09:02:22] <Alacer> Holger: I think MongooseICE is an erlang example..
[09:02:36] <Holger> Alacer: Yeah I had a quick look at that one as well.
[09:03:17] <Holger> (Elixir actually.)
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[09:43:50] <Alacer> Then the Closet I Know in Erlang is Ejabberd 's Stun Module written by a leading Erlang Dev from P1...  ;)...
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[09:45:05] <Alacer> Licaon_Kter:
> Licaon_Kter Wrote:
> Holger: retesting coturn with your disco snippet...added external-ip....tls works...removed external-ip...tls works...
> Wtf...anyway ejabberd still doesn't
Did you look at the config I shared...
[09:45:16] <Alacer> for ejabberd
[09:45:59] <Licaon_Kter> Alacer, not yet
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[09:51:39] <jeybe> Does ejabberd support the ad-hoc command for inviting users?
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[09:52:50] <marc> jeybe: it's WIP amd there is actually no final XEP for it
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[09:53:02] <marc> jeybe: it's WIP but there is actually no final XEP for it
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[09:55:25] <jeybe> marc‎, which is WIP, the XEP or the implementation?
[09:56:04] <Licaon_Kter> Alacer:
> Licaon_Kter: SSLH CONFIG --> https://paste.debian.net/1145876/
Ok, as expected, no need to alpn or regex with separate domain. After we figure out TLS as working I'll setup that, as I don't see SSLH working for this at the moment.
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[09:59:05] <marc> jeybe: both, the plan is to use IBR2 / XEP-389 for account registration. I have a poc for that but waiting for feedback
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[09:59:43] <Alacer> All the best. By the was as it was.a.testing cloud server I have stopped it but If you need I.can rebuild and give you control...
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[10:00:53] <Alacer> Also do not.forget to remove 5349 from mod_stun_disco and mention 443...
[10:01:17] <Alacer> but keep listener on 5349
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[10:01:41] <jeybe> > jeybe: both, the plan is to use IBR2 / XEP-389 for account registration. I have a poc for that but waiting for feedback
Ok, thanks
[10:02:44] <Licaon_Kter> Alacer:
No need for control, thanks
> Licaon_Kter: ejabberd.yml --> https://paste.debian.net/1145878/
Looks same-ish.
> Also do not.forget to remove 5349 from mod_stun_disco and mention 443...
Yes and no, the problem is how did you test/check that TURN TLS was working? Your firewall only opens 443?
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[10:11:14] <Alacer> Yup But I have SSLH with Name "tls" forwarding to 5349 and the ejabberd Listener is 5349 using tls as well. Also I used same with 2.8.0 and 2.8.1 but it worked only with 2.8.2 which as TLS... Off Course I didn't run wireshark or something...
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[10:35:27] <Steven Roose> Alacer, damn my Dino missed some messages in this chat
[10:35:38] <Steven Roose> Alacer, what did you mean with
[10:35:42] <Steven Roose> > Well Package Management for the latest release of ejabberd in NixOS may well have to be managed...
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[11:22:04] <Alacer> Well I meant that currently NixOS is having 20.01 ejabberd but let's say STUN/TURN which is in 20.04 will either have to be packaged or like Snikket we also take Docker Approach where P1 maintains the Docker Images however Now in case of snikket they cannot use lets say sslh as Host Ports binding... So in a NutShell the Idea of NixOS is good but someone has to take the responsibility of Package Management  for ejabberd...
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[11:24:07] <caius> I just tested my setup with two clients behind two firewalls only allowing 443 outbound (and of course clients in two non directly routeable network). TURN is coturn and not ejabberd. It works well. I'm using nginx to multiplex 443. I haven't tried with sslh.
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[11:26:07] <Alacer> caius: Coturn using tls or Dtls on 443
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[11:28:07] <caius> DTLS would be UDP. I'm doing TCP 443 so it's TLS. And you can capture traffic to see it.
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[11:44:00] <Alacer> 443 Does not mean it is TLS, its a Port so did you mention the TLS in coturn config... as just configuring coturn to listen to port 443 does not mean TLS.
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[12:44:36] <marc> Why do we need TCP/TLS for coturn?
[12:44:58] <Licaon_Kter> marc: tcp is one
tls is another
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[12:45:14] <Licaon_Kter> Depends on network maybe, and for moar security.
[12:46:03] <marc> Well, what is it used for? We use DTLS and UDP for a/v, no?
[12:47:08] <Licaon_Kter> marc: yes, but you can secure the channel with TLS
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[12:47:44] <marc> Thats what DTLS is, and why do I need TCP?
[12:49:21] <marc> Oh wait, the entire discussion is about using DTLS on 443?
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[12:50:39] <Licaon_Kter> no, DTLS-SRTP over TLS on 443, or whatever port
443 for firewall escaping mostly, but can be done on 5349
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[12:54:40] <marc> Understand
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[12:54:49] <Alacer> I think it is DTLS-SRTP over UDP or TLS-SRTP over TCP using TLS Security. DTLS is already channel security so I don't so WebRTC has Double Encryption applied ?
[12:55:38] <marc> But TLS-SRTP is not used by C, right?
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[12:57:33] <marc> Do I we have bad experience with A/V not on 443?
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[12:59:42] <Licaon_Kter> No, works fine, just that over TLS appears to be harder to setup, eg. see my posts above and ejabberd issue, I can't be able to have it, but works with coturn
[12:59:43] <Alacer> I think tls calls for tcp side of protocol stake making it tls-srtp so  I believe _Conv_ 2.8.2+ it supports TLS comn
[13:00:01] <Licaon_Kter> Yes
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[13:01:02] <Holger> > I think it is DTLS-SRTP over UDP or TLS-SRTP over TCP using TLS Security. DTLS is already channel security so I don't so WebRTC has Double Encryption applied ?
This is mixing the A/V encryption technology with the TURN connection transport. Completely unrelated.
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[13:01:40] <Holger> DTLS is used for exchanging the keys used to encrypt the RTP streams.
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[13:03:19] <Holger> Those streams can be relayed by TURN. The TURN client can receive the stream via different TURN transports: unencrypted UDP, unencrypted TCP, or TLS (the peer will always talk UDP to the TURN relay).
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[13:04:10] <Holger> Coturn supports a fourth transport: DTLS (totally unrelated to how DTLS is used for key exchange). libwebrtc doesn't support TURN via DTLS.
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[13:14:26] <Alacer> THanks ... Holger..
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[13:15:10] <Alacer> Licaon_Kter... So stil with only coturn and not ejabberd.. Are you running ejabberd on Raspi 3 or a Server....
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[13:16:13] <Licaon_Kter> RPi3+ IS A SERVER you rasist!!!111
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[13:16:33] <nuron> 🤣
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[13:17:30] <Alacer> :D offcourse... nope I am not sure if there is anything in erlang for ARM as if you can run coturn on raspi why cannot ejabberd_stun which is rather simpler...
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[13:18:38] <Licaon_Kter> Alacer, we are lost in translation...
I can, and I do run ejabberd on RPis, first year was a RPi1/256Mb from 2012...that's not the issue.
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[13:19:01] <Licaon_Kter> The issue is that, ejabberd TURN TLS is not working...
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[13:20:18] <Alacer> How come it is working for me and not for an expert like you...
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[13:20:59] <Licaon_Kter> What expert, are you kidding? 🙂 🙂
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[13:21:25] <Alacer> I actually want to cross check to know if I am misJudging or what.. Nope you are far better than me..
[13:21:28] <Alacer> for sure..
[13:21:41] <Licaon_Kter> Going by this not working I'd rather say I'm dumb instead 🙂
[13:21:46] <Alacer> running ejabberd on Raspi and then Jitsi as well..
[13:21:59] <Alacer> Nope it happens to all....
[13:22:13] <Alacer> No one is Dumb in this world
[13:22:20] <Alacer> except COVID-19...
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[13:44:57] <Licaon_Kter> Alacer,    the beauty of the RPi is that it runs Debian, and from RPi2 revision 2 or whatever, upwards it can use pure Debian arm64. So anything is available like on any Linux box, or if not available I can compile it.
[13:46:21] <Licaon_Kter> So guides apply, repos can be used, everything is the same, yes you fill 1Gb of RAM fast but otherwise it just works.
[13:46:34] <Alacer> Yup ..... and I am that guy who has 3 of RASPis Laying around and am unable to put them to work. 1 I have to re-Flash the OS, 2 are Noisy due to Fan so banned by Family Authority as the little one cannot sleep :(
[13:47:09] <Alacer> There are now High Speed SSD Cards.. I think Raspi 4 supports them right?
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[13:48:02] <Licaon_Kter> I had a RPi1 since 2012, the same, it was collecting dust until 2017 when I though "what if I host my own xmpp instead", then I tested and hey everything works, prosody, ejabberd, freebsd, linux... nice.
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[13:48:48] <Licaon_Kter> https://upload.convorb.im/7c370453f738f2c0c995eaee643e5e0aba76aeb0/NiAkKmezf6JBGmEqCwGxuU8fErICHdnr4foddL1U/rpi1_256_RTB_80_10Mupload-text.jpeg
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[13:49:23] <Licaon_Kter> ...then you see ^^^ and understand that Matrix can't replace anything anytime soon.
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[13:51:40] <Alacer> Off Course.. I think Conversation with A/V is the Eco System Picking up Pace.... For Matrix Guys I have a little JOulesy as how they gather Finances and Pity as they are always innovating enough to let someone run something in Producion Env...
[13:52:08] <marc> jeybe: the feedback I need is more on the XEP level
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[13:53:58] <Alacer> BY the way I may travel to China late this year or next provided COVID Permits.. I would like to run Conversations A/V through that Mamoth Cannon Wall... lets see...
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[13:58:10] <caius> c2s might work first times. Then it will stop once they've figured out the server runs XMPP. And they'll know because they will try to connect to it and fingerprint it.
[13:59:20] <Licaon_Kter> caius, do you know that they actively block xmpp servers?
[14:00:13] <caius> A friend of mine used mine once while travelling to China. It worked for a few days. Then it became impossible to connect.
[14:00:33] <Licaon_Kter> Only 5222 or you had 443 too?
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[14:00:59] <caius> 5222/5223 at that time.
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[14:01:47] <Alacer> FOr Us as we have office there... our colleagues were pushed to use WeChat there... Ok I have nothing against it except it eats alot of battery and heavy
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[14:02:48] <caius> I think they actively fingerprint remote severs. If it's HTTPS they might let you connect. Other things they will block . And certainly XMPP is something to ban as it promotes free speech.
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[14:36:19] <daniel> i had no issues connecting to my xmpp server in 2018
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[14:53:32] <Alacer> Daniel: its was 5222 or 443
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[15:39:04] <marc> Even some Freifunk networks seem to block non-HTTP(S) traffic
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[16:07:04] <Pitho> marc: You mean all ports but 443 and 80 or all but HTTP(S) packets?
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[16:19:43] <marc> On a port level I think, not all Freifunk communities of course
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[16:30:16] <Pitho> On port level Fritxbox's guest network blocks all traffic but 443 / 80 too by default. :-/
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[17:50:24] <ij> https://the-federation.info/ejabberd - https://github.com/ingoj/ejabberd-nodeinfo2 - if someone’s interested…
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