Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Sunday, July 4, 2021< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[13:11:06] <Holger> > Why have xmpp when you have different instant messaging implementation
Because DeltaChat is a terrible hack.  (Even worse than XMPP!)
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[13:37:02] <Licaon_Kter> Why worse? Holger
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[13:41:08] <Holger> No push notifications, group chat is emulated (even worse than mailing list, "send an 1:1 message to each group member"), email infra isn't designed for IM (graylisting, virus scanning, whatnot).
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[13:42:09] <Holger> XMPP might be a failure today but at least had the potential to become a proper chat protocol in principle.  Abusing email for chat doesn't.
[13:42:19] <Holger> XMPP might be a failure today but at least has the potential to become a proper chat protocol in principle.  Abusing email for chat doesn't.
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[13:43:26] <Holger> I mean if you started from scratch, you wouldn't even use email infra for email 😀
[13:43:33] <Licaon_Kter> > XMPP ... has the potential to become a proper chat protocol in principle.
I LOLED
[13:43:56] <Holger> There's a reason JMAP exists, and that just fixes a fraction of the email crap.
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[13:44:25] <Licaon_Kter> > No push notifications
IMAP IDLE? Not sure on iOS though
[13:44:51] <Holger> IMAP IDLE upgrades IMAP to work like Jabber in 1999.
[13:45:19] <Holger> Without IDLE it works like HTTP (just polling). With IDLE it supports a persistent connection.
[13:46:33] <Holger> The problem is, IMAP has no XEP-0357 equivalent.
[13:46:40] <Holger> JMAP has that part.
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[13:47:12] <Holger> (The only serious public JMAP implementation, Cyrus, doesn't though.)
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[13:51:51] <Holger> The one point DeltaChat users have is: They can talk to email users.  I.e. they don't have our empty contact list issue.
[13:52:21] <Holger> Personally I'm not interested at all. I just use my email app to send an email.
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[13:53:48] <egnun> I think XMPP already is a great chat protocol.
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[13:55:43] <egnun> By the way what exactly is PubSub and why would I need it?
[13:55:59] <Holger> 🙂 Was kinda talking worst case. "Even if you think XMPP sucks, well it at least doesn't have Delta's problem of sucking by design (due to reusing infra which is meant to do something else)".
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[14:01:27] <Holger> > By the way what exactly is PubSub and why would I need it?
Not trivial to answer as it's an abstract pattern used for all sorts of functionality.
[14:02:00] <Holger> A publisher publishes an event which is then delivered to subscribers.
[14:02:47] <Holger> For example, your avatar. Or your public OMEMO keys. Or a Movim microblogging article/comment.
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[15:20:05] <Licaon_Kter> Neustradamus is back, I wander what happened
[15:20:22] <Holger> \o/
[15:20:40] <Holger> No wonder everyone got lazy recently.
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[15:27:19] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> > egnun wrote:
> By the way what exactly is PubSub and why would I need it?
bacefook clones?
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[15:30:41] <Holger> You could argue that almost everything in a communication protocol follows a publish-subscribe pattern.  Esp. if multi-device usage is supported, like with XMPP.
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[15:32:16] <Holger> Clients publish events (send a message, join a room, add someone to the contact list) and usually one or more other clients (of one or more peers, plus the publisher's devices) are 'subscribed' to be notified of those events.
[15:32:38] <Holger> Matrix believes "everything is a room", but rooms are just special cases of PubSub 🙂
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[15:33:24] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> =)
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[17:59:59] <egnun> > For example, your avatar. Or your public OMEMO keys. Or a Movim microblogging article/comment.
I think, I begin to understand.
But would I need PubSub for my private server, that I use to communicate with friends and family and to host a few MUCs?
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[18:02:05] <Licaon_Kter> egnun: yes because you all will want avatars, OMEMO keys, Movim microblogging article/comment, etc
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[20:00:26] <Licaon_Kter> Stop with the uppercase D...ammit
https://distrotoot.com/@macxcool/106523672619672787
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[22:37:20] <edhelas> why Movim microbloging, it's just XMPP Microbloging :D
[22:37:26] <edhelas> Movim didn't invented it
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[22:53:08] <Licaon_Kter> edhelas: popularized it
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[23:12:41] <Ellenor Bjornsdottir> :)
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