Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, August 26, 2022< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[05:31:25] <Holger> EOF: Huh?  You'd leak the type in order to spare a single-line wrapper at the risk of having to modify hundreds of code lines (and breaking custom modules) in case the type changes (which it did in the past)?
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[05:32:08] <EOF> perhaps i'm missing some history there
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[05:44:31] <EOF> i guess i can re-word what i said to make more sense, and better explain how i just responded. i don't think there is an absolute "correct" here.
so, fundamentally module options are arbitrary key-value data, extracted from some sort of written configuration. erlang terms, toml, yaml, etc... all can express more or less the same thing for "our" purposes. yes, it's possible that this might be stored in a more complex fashion, but at first appearance it seems that a simple associative type is well suited to that purpose.
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[05:46:39] <EOF> re history, perhaps there have been some changes to the config system in the past that led to the current design, but maps are pretty fundamental compared to some other complex type from some config module. the interface that is in place tracks fundamentally with the map interface, and there is no reason that any future configuration approach - bar, perhaps, one where values are not known until requested - could not be made to produce a map.
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[05:53:22] <EOF> allowing modules to assume that their configuration data is a map also means that the apparently common pattern of maintaining a record mimicking more or less exactly the declared module options is not necessary, since maps appear to support destructuring and matching.
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[05:54:31] <EOF> (the above pattern occurring, e.g., in mod_http_upload) where a record more or less identical to the configuration for the module is used as the state object for gen_server behaviour
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[06:14:09] <Holger> Sorry but I think you're over-engineering (over-thinking) the topic 😉 The cost of the abstraction is basically zero, the gain is that it allows for transparently changing the type, plus it improves readability. I think that's a very good trade-off but whatever.
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[06:15:38] <Holger> Records are used when the set of keys is known at compile time, which is not the case here.  What's common for this sort of thing besides maps is proplists (those were used in the past here).
[06:17:55] <Holger> I agree it doesn't seem likely we'll revert to proplists or switch to another type, but back in the days, it didn't seem likely we'd ever change the proplist type either. If you start leaking abstractions for no good reason based on this assumption it's not unlikely you'll regret it one day, here or elsewhere.
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[06:22:25] <EOF> i don't disagree that it may make code more explicit and there is no doubt that the abstraction is effectively free - it's just that, coming from other languages with (apparently) similar ideas about pattern matching and types, that it seems like maps/dictionaries are the correct tool for the job. it is my understanding that they are a somewhat recent (2014?) development in Erlang, though.
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[06:33:54] <Holger> EOF, yeah, 2017 actually (that's the reason they weren't used in the first place).
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[06:43:02] <Holger> If we talk general rather than this specific case I'd agree that pattern matching is the #1 reason to expose representations (that's what plain OOP people aren't used to).  E.g. how our `xmpp` library exposes all those records which ejabberd can then pattern-match on.  Erlang libraries often miss that chance by making everything opaque.
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[12:56:57] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[18:10:00] pprrks leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[18:10:17] catchy leaves the room
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[18:27:37] marc0s leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[18:55:53] doctor leaves the room
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[19:25:31] pprrks leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[19:36:37] raver leaves the room
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[20:03:13] qy leaves the room: Disconnected: Hibernating too long
[20:03:15] Amolith leaves the room
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[20:03:24] qy leaves the room: Disconnected: Too many unacked stanzas remaining, session can't be resumed
[20:03:31] ta joins the room
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