Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, July 14, 2023< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[07:52:03] <chunk> > XMPP needs more web client services
> PubSub and Disco need more appreciation.
> Read my post https://the8woodcutter.sh/blog
[07:52:36] <chunk> Pls dont consider spam, xmpp need this, choose to read link yourself, the message includes above
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[07:59:48] <Holger> chunk: If I understand you correctly then you don't need a new server module. The existing WebSocket access can be used to do arbitrary XMPP things.
[08:00:22] <Holger> So you 'just' need to write a JavaScript client that does what you want.
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[08:00:58] <chunk> Okay sweet.
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[08:04:31] <chunk> I will have to learn some js better, websockets, then I suppose xmpp stanzas.  I kinda want to see a web based pubsub manager/viewer cuz other than movim i dont think one exists and pubsub could definitely get more appreciation
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[08:05:22] <chunk> I wonder if, for better adoption and not being so lone, if I should work off an existing model.  I kinda don't want to.
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[08:08:37] <chunk> Hmm I could write it in python or php, that is my preference (PHP)
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[08:19:55] <manis> TBH, what is pubsub used for in XMPP?
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[08:22:57] <chunk> manis: Ever used Movim?  Or RSS?  It's for syndicating data/information
[08:23:32] <manis> chunk, I kinda get what pubsub is, but I haven't seen a "popular" use of it inside XMPP.
[08:23:46] <manis> (other than Movim's somewhat ugly "blogging")
[08:23:48] <chunk> in a pulisher subscriber fashion.  As long as I've been on XMPP it's gotten no love.  Except from movim
[08:24:09] <chunk> manis: I was hosting a custom movim, which WAS nice to look at
[08:24:14] <manis> mhmh, overlaps with my experiene.
[08:24:29] <chunk> except it is very difficult to implement properly
[08:24:33] <chunk> i find
[08:24:43] <manis> chunk, the GUI is nice and it also uses pretty light JavaScript which I liked a lot. But the URLs and stuff looked really...special.
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[08:25:43] <chunk> yea i totally agree.  not SEO friendly at all
[08:25:57] <chunk> or people EO friendly lol
[08:26:26] <chunk> what i learned with laravel is url rewrites are great, super good for a good app
[08:26:50] <manis> Maybe I'm oldskool but I usually do url rewrites in .htaccess.
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[08:30:09] <chunk> I learned what I know in PHP using Laravel, admittedly it's limited (and now aging) knowledge but I'm aware of Apache2's rewrite
[08:30:40] <chunk> In all honesty doing something like I mentioned on my blog will take me a very long time.
[08:32:02] <chunk> I've gotten better at python and I'm not scared to write some stuff with that and I wouldn't be suprised if I wrote (or found and utilized) an xmpp websockets server that is python
[08:32:32] <chunk> But the web part must be PHP (my personal preference)
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[08:37:18] <Ellenor Bjornsd.> then make it
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[08:40:04] <chunk> Ellenor Bjornsd.: i would like to, but I won't say I'm going to, at this time.  Because IRL reasons.
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[09:11:20] <saarko> Does https://docs.ejabberd.im/admin/configuration/toplevel/#trusted-proxies
apply for the HTTP listener only as mentioned in the documentation or also for the TCP listener and their `use_proxy_protocol` option?
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[09:12:11] <prefiks> thats only for http
[09:12:40] <saarko> thx
[09:13:30] <saarko> so `use_proxy_protocol` always imply trust to all proxies?
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[09:15:21] <prefiks> yes, you need to limit who can access it externally (with firewall or something)
[09:15:38] <saarko> I see, thx
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[09:16:14] <Holger> chunk: I think you'd really want to do such a thing in JavaScript to have it run in the browser rather than server-side.  That would the #1 thing I'd do differently than Movim.
[09:17:12] <prefiks> with use_proxy_protocol it requires special data at start of a stream, so you pretty much need limit access to only proxy
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[09:30:01] <saarko> > with use_proxy_protocol it requires special data at start of a stream, so you pretty much need limit access to only proxy
alright! thx
[09:30:51] <pinkolik> hey fellows. can you give me a recommendation about "s2s_use_starttls" property? I set it to "required", can this affect my server and ability to connect to other servers somehow?
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[09:46:44] <manis> > chunk: I think you'd really want to do such a thing in JavaScript to have it run in the browser rather than server-side.  That would the #1 thing I'd do differently than Movim.
Why? Privacy?
I think the primary reason to do it server-side would be to cache data when the user is offline.
[09:47:30] <chunk> PHP is a lot faster than JS
[09:47:30] <manis> > hey fellows. can you give me a recommendation about "s2s_use_starttls" property? I set it to "required", can this affect my server and ability to connect to other servers somehow?
If the other server is not properly configured (i.e. does not support SSL), you won't be able to talk to it.
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[09:48:03] <Holger> manis: Caching data should be the XMPP server's job.
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[09:48:27] <Holger> The issue is with adding another unnecessary hop wich needs access to credentials, keys and whatnot.
[09:48:54] <manis> Holger, so it can be roughly described as privacy?
[09:48:56] <manis> chunk, Processing a bit of XML and putting it in the DOM is fast enough in sane JavaScript, too.
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[09:49:57] <Holger> manis: Yes that would be privacy, though the "unecessary proxy" part is a technical argument.
[09:50:02] <manis> IMHO if the idea is to take pubsub data and make it available publically (à la blog, RSS) having a server side implementation is fine and actually preferable.
If it is supposed to be just "another interface" to XMPP pubsub where users will need to log in using their XMPP account I tend to agree with Holger that a pure client-side implementation would be preferable.
[09:50:20] <Holger> Ok, yes.
[09:50:28] <chunk> manis: i have to apoligize but I really dislike js
[09:50:47] <manis> Everybody dislikes JS.
[09:50:56] <chunk> Heh, true
[09:51:06] <manis> It could've been a pretty nice Lisp if they hadn't fucked up the parens.
[09:51:11] <Holger> chunk: You can use other languagues that compile down to JS.  The question is whether the code should be run in a browser or on a server, not "what language do I like".
[09:51:12] <chunk> > IMHO if the idea is to take pubsub data and make it available publically (à la blog, RSS) having a server side implementation is fine and actually preferable.
> If it is supposed to be just "another interface" to XMPP pubsub where users will need to log in using their XMPP account I tend to agree with Holger that a pure client-side implementation would be preferable.
this does make sense
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[09:53:17] <chunk> Yea I understand PHP doesnt serve much use on the client side for this idea but I think it does for setting up the handshake (python maybe better) and sending/recieving requests.  This is required for a websockets app is a websockets server right?  Or am I wrong?
[09:53:45] <manis> Writing vanilla JavaScript is more or less doable once you have your basic wrapper functions set up. It's a bit like writing C.
Then you'll only have to fight with different browsers if you want to the modern features.
I gave up and stayed with ES3. Nowadays everything I write just works 🙂
[09:53:48] <chunk> I don't currently know any commands to interact with websockets
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[09:54:09] <chunk> Vanilla Javascript yes
[09:54:42] <Holger> chunk: It's the other way round: (JavaScript) Code running in a browser cannot do raw TCP/XMPP, so you use WebSockets (or BOSH) there.  If you build a server-side thing like Movim, you can just use plain XMPP (like Movim does).
[09:54:51] <manis> If you use PHP you don't _need_ to use WebSockets. (e.g.https://github.com/Norgul/xmpp-php)
[09:55:00] <chunk> Holger: oh right
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[09:56:17] <chunk> yea good point. well what can i expect from `wss://localhost:5443/ws` ?  I will try to telnet some HTTP when I go back inside
[09:56:33] <chunk> telnet/nc
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[09:57:31] <manis> Don't try to telnet WebSockets, please :-)
[09:57:32] <Holger> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7395.html
[09:58:15] <chunk> yes i have that open, i will read it
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[10:28:17] <chunk> https://git.sr.ht/~cmdr_chunk/xmppnotes
[10:28:20] <chunk> 😛
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[12:10:03] <zoidberg> pinkolik:  it will depend on other servers, if they have the encryption disable, then it will not be able to connect to your server
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[12:18:29] <pinkolik> > pinkolik:  it will depend on other servers, if they have the encryption disable, then it will not be able to connect to your server
But encryption is good, am I right?
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[12:26:56] <chunk> most servers don't allow unencrypted s2s and definitely not unencrypted c2s
[12:27:09] <chunk> in fact that reminds me to set force s2s encryption brb
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[13:34:51] <zoidberg> pinkolik: Yes
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[18:29:55] <pinkolik> Is there a way to force ejabberd sync messages between contacts? Becuase it seems like not all my messages are delivered to users on other instances. And I don't know why because there are literally no errors in logs
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[18:42:10] <Licaon_Kter> pinkolik: clients are responsible for that
Which ones?
[18:44:19] <pinkolik> I'm using gajim and conversations, while the other person uses only conversations
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[18:46:25] <Licaon_Kter> If you check other instances on https://compliance.conversations.im they're ok?
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[18:49:15] <pinkolik> Yeah, both have 100%
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[18:49:41] <pinkolik> except mine doesn't have this one
[18:49:43] <pinkolik> https://jabber.random-hero.com:5443/upload/76ae338dfa0ebf39b977935fdcdddc357d79e5e3/YgyXPnHTXJXN6ocEkSDGc5TdDKWaTLjWBB0xsQUj/dc374443-6344-43cc-b5ec-04206a0e1889.png
[18:49:48] <pinkolik> Can this be related
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[18:52:04] <Licaon_Kter> That's for your account, but "extended" should not be a problematic if missing, iirc
[18:52:19] <Licaon_Kter> Did they toggle "archive" always in Conversations. Account. Menu, Archive?
[18:54:16] <pinkolik> Yes, it's set to always
[18:55:08] <Licaon_Kter> They don't get the message at all? Not from your Gajim nor your Conversations?
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[18:56:22] <pinkolik> That's the thing. They get my messages from both. But some of messages don't get through for some reason, and sometimes I don't get some of theirs
[18:56:56] <pinkolik> it happenes rarely but i'd still prefer if it wouldn't happen at all haha
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[19:07:14] <pinkolik> I guess the other server can't connect to mine for some reason. I wish I knew why and how to fix it
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[19:33:31] <Licaon_Kter> Oh
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[19:43:07] <pinkolik> I have 11 incoming s2s connections and 13 outgoing. How can I trigger other server to reinitiate connection to mine?
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[19:46:54] <pinkolik> Okay. So after restarting ejabberd the other server connected to mine, but previously missed messages weren't resend :(
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