Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Saturday, March 9, 2024< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[00:01:31] Titi joins the room
[00:03:05] barlas joins the room
[00:03:22] Julian leaves the room
[00:04:20] alan leaves the room
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[00:05:33] writer77 leaves the room
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[00:57:14] PatRiot leaves the room
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[02:05:32] alan joins the room
[02:05:44] ☭Mike Yellow joins the room
[02:06:07] stp joins the room
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[02:10:00] ☭Mike Yellow joins the room
[02:10:03] ☭Mike Yellow joins the room
[02:10:04] <☭Mike Yellow> The changelog says 23.10 Add support to register nick in a room.
What is it? The one column in MUC Affiliation list of Gajim's view?
[02:10:05] info leaves the room
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[02:43:43] barlas leaves the room
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[02:51:20] maidlover joins the room
[02:56:00] alan leaves the room
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[02:58:33] dos leaves the room
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[03:03:13] Mher leaves the room
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[03:15:16] ZHOSKA leaves the room
[03:15:38] midou leaves the room
[03:16:02] grin leaves the room
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[03:19:28] maidlover leaves the room
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[03:36:49] gooya leaves the room
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[04:07:46] de-facto leaves the room
[04:08:59] midou leaves the room
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[04:09:22] stp leaves the room
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[04:11:44] Сергій joins the room
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[04:32:28] donk leaves the room
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[04:33:45] barlas joins the room
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[04:39:47] Amolith leaves the room
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[04:44:17] barlas leaves the room
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[05:31:21] Julian leaves the room
[05:31:26] midou leaves the room
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[05:33:20] SouL leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[05:34:02] barlas leaves the room
[05:34:38] Sally leaves the room
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[05:49:53] non.dlb01 leaves the room: offline
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[06:01:16] 匚卄尺丨丂ㄒ丨卂几 joins the room
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[07:14:33] ☭Mike Yellow joins the room
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[07:20:03] Amolith leaves the room
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[07:21:26] yellow leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
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[07:23:50] Bertrand leaves the room
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[07:51:22] <Licaon_Kter> Hmm, think I'm seeing odd restarts too :(
Was chatting ok, then I'm offline, looking at .log "Loading configuration..." wtf...e
[07:51:26] <Licaon_Kter> Hmm, think I'm seeing odd restarts too :(
Was chatting ok, then I'm offline, looking at .log "Loading configuration..." wtf...
[07:52:27] <Licaon_Kter> I'm on 24.02.6, building HEAD next and then see if it's a systemd restart (it will update version) or some other type (not update version)
[07:52:35] hellekin joins the room
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[07:53:26] <Licaon_Kter> This is my 3rd time I see it restart in the last 3 days, first one the server was unreachable remotely...so maybe that was an ISP glitch (first theory)
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[09:45:19] <Manis> > That mament when the most exciting xmpp server feature is... matrix :rolleyes:
Yes, Licaon_Kter. I don't know why Matrix is so popular (okay I also thought it was cool years ago). Unfortunately Matrix is so annoying to use that being able to communicate with Matrix people using a working XMPP client is the feature of the year ;-)
[09:45:19] <Manis> And the next big feature of the year may be able to communicate with WhatsCrap.
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[10:23:06] <doesnm> via Third-party chats?
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[10:26:46] <Manis> https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-messenger-messaging-interoperability-eu/
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[10:27:50] <Manis> It sounds like it's close enough to XMPP+OMEMO that it could work, but the devil's likely in the details.
[10:28:18] <Manis> They're probably going out of their way to make it incompatible with XMPP.
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[17:13:54] <tyler_h> Can't update SQL schema for module mod_mqtt_sql, please do it manually
So I did this...
    new_sql_schema: true
    modules:
      mod_admin_update_sql: {}
then restart ejabberd, and finally execute the update_sql command:
    ejabberdctl update_sql
& it still gives me the error.  what did I do wrong?
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[17:27:33] <zoidberg> did you like shutdown Ejabberd before, set the config and then updated and after turn it ON again?
[17:27:56] <zoidberg> I am saying this because this is the way ive done it and it all went well
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[17:28:53] <zoidberg> maybe the order might be important? I am not really sure.
[17:30:16] <zoidberg> But i think you can also do it manually, ive done it once but it was quite some time ago. I dont reallt remember the exact steps.
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[17:51:06] <Kris> Manis: that WhatsApp API is client to server only and you need to sign an NDA to get the details, meaning it is impossible to implement in open-source software unless you clean-room reversed engineer it, at which point you might as well spoof a real client as currently dome by Slidge.
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[17:51:33] <Kris> So tldr. Completely useless and malicious compliance by Meta.
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[17:57:41] <Holger> > So tldr. Completely useless and malicious compliance by Meta.
Yup.
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[18:07:43] <Licaon_Kter> > keeping users safe from spam and scams such as TCP fingerprints
what
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[18:10:34] <Licaon_Kter> >  the E2EE promise Meta provides to users of our messaging services requires us to control both the sending and receiving clients
3rd party means gatekeeper can't control it, that's the point lol
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[19:17:43] <Licaon_Kter> moar useless details here https://element.io/blog/the-eu-digital-markets-act-is-here/
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[19:27:24] <Holger> Licaon_Kter: So if I got that article right, the world leader in interoperable end-to-end-encrypted communication has formally requested interoperability with WhatsApp but is unsure what that actually means, as they only just started digging into the 47-page spec.
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[19:41:58] <Licaon_Kter> ...under an NDA, for element.io only (for now)
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[19:52:53] <meson> >  the world leader in interoperable end-to-end-encrypted communication
So humble! :)
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[19:53:46] <arcanicanis> I'm assuming it's just MIMI/MLS? Whereas the MLS spec is ~46 pages, at least for how it's rendered as a PDF on the IETF website
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[19:54:35] <MattJ> It's not MIMI or MLS
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[20:33:19] <Manis> 😥
[20:33:29] <Manis> Hpw could I be so naïve?
[20:33:34] <Manis> How could I be so naïve?
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[20:34:08] <Manis> Thank you Kris, Holger, Licaon_Kter for clarifying.
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[20:34:38] <Licaon_Kter> Manis: why were you?
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[20:35:20] <Manis> Good question, Licaon_Kter. Well I probably just wanted it enough to be blinded by their marketing post.
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[20:36:01] <Manis> In there it sounded to me like the EU didn't fuck something up for once.
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[20:37:00] <Licaon_Kter> > They're probably going out of their way to make it incompatible with XMPP.
They literally say: _"Taking the example of WhatsApp, third-party clients will connect to WhatsApp servers using our protocol (based on the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol – XMPP)."_
[20:37:44] <Kris> lets see how this works out in the longer term. Now the EU has ample opportunity to react to this malicious compliance and hopefully they will. And by 2026 when the next stage comes along, maybe they managed to fine Meta enough that they will reconsider their anti-competitive behaviour.
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[20:40:25] <Manis> Licaon_Kter: you could read it as it being a superset of XMPP (like pubsub extensions for statuses or whatever).
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[20:41:12] <Manis> Kris: well let's see. But if it's true that currently only WhatsApp is required to allow interoperability, well that's a joke too.
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[20:43:51] <Kris> I think this is not so bad per se (except that Apple wiggled out of it for iMessage). Smaller messengers do not have any monopoly power to force people to use them and they might fill some niche that makes interoperability hard. Of course ideally all of them would understand XMPP...
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[20:46:52] <Licaon_Kter> Apple used the same strategy to comply.
[20:47:18] <Holger> Manis, the (well, my) question isn't primarily 'is it XMPP or not'.  The problems with their solution are (1) c2s rather than s2s and (2) the access is proprietary.
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[20:48:29] <Manis> Holger: true. And, of course, E2EE would be a challenge because WhatsApp is 1:1.
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[20:49:13] <Holger> Manis, like if email was a closed Gmail thing and now Google allows you to create your own Gmail client (after signing their NDA) rather than using SMTP to send emails to @gmail from another provider.
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[20:50:14] <Manis> Yeah, got it. C2otherS is pretty worthless for a modern messenger.
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[20:50:47] <Manis> I still didn't grasp the full details of this WhatsApp interop but would you even get offline messages?
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[20:51:12] <Kris> probably, why not?
[20:51:21] <Manis> Putting it behind NDA of course also makes it uninteresting for all small players in the market.
[20:51:46] <Manis> Kris: so, would WhatsApp cache them until your 3rdparty client comes online?
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[20:51:55] <Manis> Or is this this proxy thing?
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[20:52:46] <Kris> same as with the official whatsapp client I would guess
[20:53:17] <Kris> this proxy thing is explicitly forbidden from caching as the Element post explains. I think it was linked above
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[20:53:59] <Manis> Yes, I remember. I'm just getting confused by all these boxes in these diagrams and names I never heard before.
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[20:54:36] <Manis> So interop is really just an alternative WhatsApp client. It is not access to the network.
[20:55:11] <Manis> This "client" could run on a server and live translate but it is a client.
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[20:55:43] <Manis> In other words: WhatsApp users cannot contact you on the other network?
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[20:56:46] <Manis> Unless WhatsApp gave your 3rdparty client a "phone number"? 🧐🤔
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[20:58:59] <Kris> there will be some internal address translator, yes. But I feel like we are really getting off-topic now.
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[21:02:26] <Manis> Yes, excuse me. I got carried away with this WhatsApp thing.
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[21:17:38] <kapad> ...coming soon. The `EU Borther` loves 🫵
[21:17:53] <kapad> ...coming soon. The `EU Brother` loves 🫵
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