ejabberd - Friday, January 23, 2026

[05:11:44] <zeank> > for more on topic things: access_create_account's description is a bit of a word salad, the first two sentences are okayish, the third loses me
> so as i understand it, the acl defines who can create a "create account" invite, which by default of is nobody can, so far so good, but what does it *mean* it applies to roster invites, are they two different things or the same? and if i were to create an invite with the adhoc command Invite User, what type of invite have i created, and how do i create the other type?
There’s sure room for improvement. I tried to keep things close to the XEP so people recognize terms. Roughly spoken (as you found out yourself) there’s two types, one for roster invites and one for creating accounts. You can tell by the extension to the URI being created, one has xmpp:<jid>?roster, while the other one looks like xmpp:<jid>;register.
But now it gets a bit tricky since both can be used (within scope) to a) register an account and b) add someone to your roster.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[05:12:41] <zeank> Eventually I think it’s up to the clients, to convey that message in a decent way. But we need to work on our documentation too, no doubts.

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[05:14:06] <zeank> > for more on topic things: access_create_account's description is a bit of a word salad, the first two sentences are okayish, the third loses me
> so as i understand it, the acl defines who can create a "create account" invite, which by default of is nobody can, so far so good, but what does it *mean* it applies to roster invites, are they two different things or the same? and if i were to create an invite with the adhoc command Invite User, what type of invite have i created, and how do i create the other type?
There’s sure room for improvement. I tried to keep things close to the XEP so people recognize terms. Roughly spoken (as you found out yourself) there’s two types, one for roster invites and one for creating accounts. You can tell by the extension to the URI being created, one has xmpp:<jid>?roster, while the other one looks like xmpp:<jid>?register.
But now it gets a bit tricky since both can be used (within scope) to a) register an account and b) add someone to your roster.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (@svp)

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[05:16:16] <zeank> There’s one implementation detail that separates the two clearly: if you created an account invite, this guarantees the user can create an account with it until it expires, while a roster invites lets others create an account only until your max_invites hasn’t exceeded, which includes the number of open create account invites.

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[05:17:37] <zeank> Furthermore, an account create invite allows you to pre-select a username for the invited person. While it doesn’t disclose whether or not you’ll be added to your rosters mutually.

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[05:20:03] <zeank> Monal and Conversations support roster invites only, while all other clients only support the ad-hoc method (if at all).

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[06:59:01] <zoidberg> So i did get rid of the trusted_networks and went to test, i click on "Invite to Conversations" and take another device with Conversations(without any account) i scan the QR code and nothing happen.

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[07:00:25] <zoidberg> So i think that either conversations can only invite(but then requires a landing page) or i am doing something wrong. (ejabberd log side its clean)
[07:00:39] <zeank> Can you send me the link behind that QR code?
[07:00:53] <zoidberg> Sure
[07:00:57] <zoidberg> Can i pm u?
[07:01:13] <zeank> Yes (I’m also connected with a different client)

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[07:19:44] <zoidberg> OK so after Zeank spotted the issue in my Config. I can now use conversations to scan the QR and everything works.

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[09:48:34] <marko.cupac> Just upgraded to 16.01, no hassle 👍

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[09:51:30] <svp> good golly!
[09:52:33] <marko.cupac> On FreeBSD. Port was updated 24h after release, good job maintaier!

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[11:05:53] <zoidberg> marko.cupac: you are 10 years behind!

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[11:16:42] <vahrein> Hi, if, for example, a QR code or registration invitation link were leaked, is there any way to revoke it?

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[11:27:18] <zoidberg> I can only see `expire_invite_tokens username host`

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[11:37:46] <zeank> Not for a single token. You could use it though. It can only be used once.

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[11:43:01] <zeank> Alternatively you can set „expires“ to a date in the past for that token in your DB

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[11:48:07] <Kris> Mickaël, do you plan to support XEP-0503 in your client?

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[12:22:14] <marko.cupac> > marko.cupac: you are 10 years behind!
lol a typo 😀 26.10 I meant.

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[12:23:43] <zeank> Now you’re 9 months ahead! 😳

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[12:36:22] <Adrien> Must be an insider build 👀

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[12:38:49] <zeank> Or he doesn’t know how to use his time machine

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[12:54:52] <marko.cupac> Ok, this is not my day, shouldn't type anything 😂

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[12:56:07] <Maïke> on linux you can automatically update ejabberd which is nice

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[14:50:42] <Mickaël> > Kris wrote:
> Mickaël, do you plan to support XEP-0503 in your client?
I hope to. I need to read that XEP more carefully

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[15:05:39] <Mickaël> I would need to see how to make this feature fits nicely in the UI

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[15:09:23] <vlad> do you know how well ejabberd works as a matrix server?

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[15:09:45] <vlad> i might replace synapse with ejabberd, but i want to know if there is anything that might break or not work compared to full synapse functionality

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[15:10:26] <vlad> i need someone who actually used it and knows what pitfalls to watch out for from experience

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[15:12:00] <Mickaël> > vlad wrote:
> do you know how well ejabberd works as a matrix server?
For now, we do not support persistence in Matrix, so when you restart the server, it will be new conversation, new copy, new sync. Until we do that, it is more a bridge.

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[15:12:29] <Kris> and I think avatars etc. are also not working, right?
[15:12:34] <vlad> > For now, we do not support persistence in Matrix, so when you restart the server, it will be new conversation, new copy, new sync. Until we do that, it is more a bridge.
ah
[15:12:53] <vlad> so what about room history, does it just get lost when i restart my server?
[15:13:09] <Mickaël> yes, it will resync with the remote server
[15:13:09] <vlad> or does it re-fetch it?
[15:13:29] <vlad> what remote server?
[15:13:29] <vlad> do i actually need to run synapse too?
[15:13:38] <Mickaël> But it will be seen as a new join by other Matrix servers I think
[15:14:00] <Mickaël> > vlad wrote:
> do i actually need to run synapse too?
Well, ejabberd does not support client protocol yet
[15:14:02] <Kris> no need to run synapse, but it basically only works when you connect to other matrix servers
[15:14:22] <vlad> > But it will be seen as a new join by other Matrix servers I think
matrix is a weird and hacky protocol, joins persist in the room state afaik
[15:14:22] <vlad> can you join without leaving first?
[15:14:22] <vlad> i'm not sure

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[15:14:47] <Kris> you can but people complain about the join spam in their clients
[15:14:58] <Kris> matris users
[15:15:05] <Kris> matrix users

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[15:15:53] <vlad> haha

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[15:17:44] <Mickaël> Yes, some days we will implement persistence. but someone need the courage to do it, it will not be a fun ride :)

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[15:18:04] <Kris> Mickaël, some thing is odd with how your client references the replies. Here in Gajim I only see "the referenced message is not available".
[15:18:40] <Mickaël> Thanks, let me check that

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[15:19:39] <Kris> > Yes, some days we will implement persistence. but someone need the courage to do it, it will not be a fun ride :)
I think the general idea to be parasitic to other Matrix servers is good. Implementing a full Matrix DAG is probably not worth it and just storing enough to fake it should work.

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[15:21:35] <brian> It’s worked mostly well enough for me so far, but I only needed Matrix to use for Fedora project and DPG channels. Only issue so far is some of the DPG channels are encrypted which it doesn’t support, but meh if something is important enough then I’ll probably get an email anyway

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[16:32:48] <vlad> > I think the general idea to be parasitic to other Matrix servers is good. Implementing a full Matrix DAG is probably not worth it and just storing enough to fake it should work.
matrix is a garbage protocol precisely because it pedantically stores absolutely everything forever
[16:33:12] <vlad> i'm not joking, it takes 8 minutes to sync a client (not an initial sync, mind you)

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[16:33:41] <vlad> all desktop XMPP clients i know of are also kinda bad in different ways, but at least they only take 20s to sync
[16:34:07] <vlad> matrix has 2 or so good clients, and theyre desktop-only

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[16:34:18] <vlad> XMPP has 1.5 good clients and they are android-only

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[16:41:13] <vlad> https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019bebbb-31ae-7f2b-b024-3cd23ef89f99/dcf0d382-f4cc-4ffa-b633-95f748c3ffa2.png
[16:41:25] <vlad> i am in dire need of recommendations for clients that aren't unusable

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[16:42:58] <vlad> i need a client that can open images and other files (ideally with thumbnail previews), upload files, and supports OMEMO (ideally PGP too), while actually caring about MAM and keeping my rooms
[16:43:19] <moparisthebest> there are 99999 clients all with their own opinions, which do you mostly agree with lol
[16:43:30] <vlad> > there are 99999 clients all with their own opinions, which do you mostly agree with lol
thats the thing, none
[16:43:45] <moparisthebest> you probably haven't looked hard enough
[16:43:55] <vlad> psi doesn't compile at all
[16:44:26] <vlad> gajim is written in python and can only run for 10 minutes or so until it starts having random race conditions, lagging to oblivion, and randomly bugging around (the UI is very buggy in general too)
[16:44:38] <vlad> profanity has exactly 0.5 features

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[16:45:15] <vlad> dino has 2 features and its GNOME "simplicity" too, or in other words you can't even configure what host you connect to, having to rely on it automatically guessing that from your jid
[16:45:39] <vlad> but i'd say gajim without python/race conditions/memory leaks/lag/glitches/garbage performance

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[16:45:48] <vlad> or monocles chat without android
[16:45:57] <moparisthebest> If you like the Android clients you can easily run them on a desktop using something like waydroid
otherwise gajim, Dino, maybe one of these which are still only a few https://xmpp.org/software/?category=clients
[16:46:31] <vlad> that'd be even slower and requires an entire android container (+ wayland, which i go out of my way to keep away from my system)
[16:46:39] <moparisthebest> > dino has 2 features and its GNOME "simplicity" too, or in other words you can't even configure what host you connect to, having to rely on it automatically guessing that from your jid
you mean the basic way XMPP has worked since day 1 27 years ago? sure... why would you do differently lol
[16:46:54] <vlad> > If you like the Android clients you can easily run them on a desktop using something like waydroid
>
> otherwise gajim, Dino, maybe one of these which are still only a few https://xmpp.org/software/?category=clients
i already tried all the ones i could realistically, the ones i didnt try either didn't compile, or didn't support basic features i need

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[16:47:42] <moparisthebest> PEBKAC
[16:47:45] <vlad> > you mean the basic way XMPP has worked since day 1 27 years ago? sure... why would you do differently lol
if i have foo@host.name but run my server on xmpp.host.name for example, or only want to expose c2s to my local network or a vpn for security reasons

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[16:48:17] <moparisthebest> >> you mean the basic way XMPP has worked since day 1 27 years ago? sure... why would you do differently lol
> if i have foo@host.name but run my server on xmpp.host.name for example, or only want to expose c2s to my local network or a vpn for security reasons
fully supported since always, set srv records

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[16:48:25] <vlad> oh that works?
[16:49:12] <moparisthebest> since the first RFC in 2004 yes
[16:49:28] <MattJ> Yeah, any server that requires you to manually specify connection settings is not set up correctly. Maybe back in the early 2000s it was acceptable to make users enter this cryptic info, but we haven't done it that way for a long time :)
[16:49:31] <vlad> dino lacks other basic features though, like any kind of settings whatsoever

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[16:50:03] <MattJ> My main complaint about this behaviour in Dino is that it's very difficult to use it for testing a local server (and as a server dev, that basically means I don't test Dino often)
[16:50:14] <vlad> that too

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[16:50:27] <vlad> its a perfectly valid usecase and i don't get why that isn't supported
[16:51:09] <moparisthebest> roughly gajim & psi have every setting anyone would ever want including some no one wants and some that will break everything in subtle ways
conversations & dino take the opposite nearly no settings approach
[16:51:15] <vlad> https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019bebc4-5862-76b6-ae40-3bdc9b0c0c13/ebussy%20gnome%20good%20ui.jpg
[16:51:16] <vlad> you get the problem...

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[16:51:27] <vlad> > roughly gajim & psi have every setting anyone would ever want including some no one wants and some that will break everything in subtle ways
>
> conversations & dino take the opposite nearly no settings approach
i would use psi if i could figure out how to make it compile

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[16:51:41] <vlad> the gentoo ebuilds were long abandoned for a reason
[16:51:47] <moparisthebest> > My main complaint about this behaviour in Dino is that it's very difficult to use it for testing a local server (and as a server dev, that basically means I don't test Dino often)
you don't run your own DNS server locally? :)
[16:51:48] <vlad> extremely painful to maintain

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[16:52:32] <vlad> > roughly gajim & psi have every setting anyone would ever want including some no one wants and some that will break everything in subtle ways
>
> conversations & dino take the opposite nearly no settings approach
except conversations actually has at least SOME settings, the ones you need, plus it supports calls
[16:52:49] <vlad> unlike gajim, where calls were just removed because it was completely broken

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[16:53:13] <vlad> xmpp clients are infuriating, i might just write my own at this point

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[16:54:05] <moparisthebest> Dino and conversations are nearly the same in terms of features and settings
[16:54:15] <vlad> since when?
[16:54:26] <vlad> last time i checked conversations had 20 times more settings than dino
[16:54:49] <vlad> https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019bebc7-a6ac-76a8-bc4b-721b34f68e90/9a14325b-e9f8-4e94-a1ea-b0fd3f92fca6.png

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[16:55:54] <vlad> this is ALL dino has, plus encryption, changing your password/local alias, and disabling/removing your account

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[16:56:44] <vlad> i'm waiting for the day when apple replaces macbook keyboards with 1 button

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[17:00:02] <PseikoHeiko> > i'm waiting for the day when apple replaces macbook keyboards with 1 button
This looks like the Windows version which is not up to date with development (Windows is not officially supported).
[17:00:10] PseikoHeiko retracted a previous message, but it's unsupported by your client.

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[17:01:01] <PseikoHeiko> > https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019bebc7-a6ac-76a8-bc4b-721b34f68e90/9a14325b-e9f8-4e94-a1ea-b0fd3f92fca6.png
This looks like the Windows version which is unmaintained and not officially supported. The GNU/Linux version has many more settings.

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[17:03:56] <PseikoHeiko> Check the Dino website and look whether Dino’s macOS version is actually up to date and maintained.

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[17:54:41] <raver> cheogram is also a nice fork of conversions

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[18:18:33] <svp> > do you know how well ejabberd works as a matrix server?
ejabberd only really targets s2s

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[18:20:20] <svp> also does psi do omemo? because if thats not a hard requirement vacuum-im works okay for me

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[18:53:37] <wraith> it does

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[20:51:57] <vlad> > This looks like the Windows version which is unmaintained and not officially supported. The GNU/Linux version has many more settings.
i AM using GNU/Linux
[20:51:57] <vlad> dino 0.5.0

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[20:52:28] <vlad> https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019beca1-1461-76e3-85e3-cf0bd82c1398/6c121dd9-5486-4957-bd09-072be3f5b950.png
[20:52:48] <vlad> > also does psi do omemo? because if thats not a hard requirement vacuum-im works okay for me
it is a hard requirement, unless someone figured out how to handle file uploads with pgp
[20:53:07] <vlad> is that even in the pgp standard for xmpp?

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[20:53:37] <vlad> i would actually much rather prefer pgp because i actually know whats going on and have control over it

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[20:57:00] <vlad> > https://upload.xmpp.earth:5281/file_share/019beca1-1461-76e3-85e3-cf0bd82c1398/6c121dd9-5486-4957-bd09-072be3f5b950.png
i have all the USE flags enabled too, so nothing should be missing here

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