Process-one
ejabberd
ejabberd@conference.process-one.net
Friday, September 7, 2018< ^ >
zinid has set the subject to: ejabberd discussions: https://docs.ejabberd.im
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[05:51:49] <Licaon_Kter> https://convorb.im:5444/7c370453f738f2c0c995eaee643e5e0aba76aeb0/a6KYzAOY1siuKddXQrLa07pJ9VbLSDps3OJ4znAl/8du08yxgRSiGueBdQE0zrA.jpg
[05:52:03] <Licaon_Kter> https://convorb.im:5444/7c370453f738f2c0c995eaee643e5e0aba76aeb0/o0je0fsnSG55wGPYok8i3KhoRKjgMFPkUwAvNrqq/hZrTsRZJQpq3-L0E8BgNaQ.jpg
[05:52:46] <Licaon_Kter> Always the same slides, first there's no mention of XMPP.....because it didn't catch, it's not used...something, right?
[05:53:18] <Licaon_Kter> And then there's the slide comparing it with XMPP...WHY?
[05:53:30] <Licaon_Kter> This is funny/sad...
[05:55:49] <Licaon_Kter> _"defragmentation"_ sounds like  _embrace, extend and extinguish_
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[06:19:45] <rom1dep> Licaon_Kter: don't worry, I do see around me matrix being on the descending side of the hype curve, it has disappointed few enough many. Now if we had slightly better clients and calls on all platforms, we could even have looked good
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[06:25:02] <edhelas> rom1dep it's coming πŸ˜ƒ
[06:25:39] <rom1dep> edhelas: what, omemo in movim? πŸ˜‚
[06:26:18] <edhelas> Next release possibly
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[06:26:38] <rom1dep> Oh, it's actually on the table?
[06:27:08] <edhelas> As weird as it sounds yes. Server side
[06:27:30] <edhelas> Encryption done on the Movim instance
[06:28:31] <rom1dep> So it's actually e2movim encrypted, and then movim2browser over TLS?
[06:28:42] <edhelas> Yes
[06:30:38] <zinid> So movim ruined the whole point of e2ee 😁
[06:30:41] <rom1dep> All this eavesdropping and server admin mitm listening will have people killed eventually!
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[06:31:50] <edhelas> zinid who will deliver the JS to encrypt the messages in the browser πŸ€”?
[06:32:41] <rom1dep> zinid: not sure it's feasible to do right in the browser. Apparently riot does something not totally unsound, not sure what that is
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[06:35:00] <zinid> I'm totally lost with all these e2ee and what you expect from it
[06:35:08] <zinid> Too old for this shit
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[06:40:06] <edhelas> Yup
[06:40:59] <edhelas> I'll have to be clear about it in the UI but people NEEDS E2E ENCRYPTION
[06:42:20] <zinid> I don't needs
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[06:45:00] <edhelas> Yeah but you're not common people
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[06:49:08] <zinid> I am moar common than 99% of Conversations users
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[06:59:49] <daniel> edhelas: I think it's different levels of trust. a) trust a server admin to give you the right Java script b) trust a server admin to store all your messages in clear text
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[07:06:20] <Holger> daniel: You compare "E2EE in JavaScript" to "no E2EE", no? If you compare "E2EE in JavaScript" to "E2EE on the Movim instance" I'd say it's the same level of trust.
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[07:08:44] <Holger> zinid: In our universe even common people need it because their peer's clients enforce it. Maybe we need mod_omemo to do it ejabberd-side.
[07:11:51] <daniel> Holger: well in one scenario edhelas can just go to the database at any time and just get all my messages in clear text. In the other one he at some point has to decide to code Java script that will not only decode my messages but the reupload them to his server. To me that's different level of malicious intent
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[07:13:13] <Holger> Oh I assumed he isn't actually storing messages.
[07:13:28] <Holger> If he does then yes.
[07:14:13] <daniel> To me that seems like the reason of doing e2ee in the server in the first place?
[07:14:20] <daniel> But yeah maybe I'm wrong
[07:15:36] <Holger> You're probably right.
[07:15:45] <marc> 'e2ee in the server' sounds soo wrong 😢
[07:17:00] <Holger> Not if it's just about interop rather than privacy.
[07:18:07] <Holger> Wasn't there a mod_otr?
[07:18:52] <Holger> https://ejabberd.im/mod_otr
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[07:20:15] <Holger> Seems code is gone.
[07:22:17] <daniel> Well terminating e2ee on your own personal server doesn't have to be a bad thing
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[07:22:59] <marc> And why do you need to process OMEMO on thr server and not in JS?
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[07:23:45] <marc> Converse has OMEMO now, right?
[07:23:58] <daniel> marc: in master yes
[07:24:14] <daniel> But Converse and movim are fundamentally different
[07:24:52] <daniel> Converse is a pure Javascript client that only communicates with the server and has always used local storage for caching and such
[07:25:12] <daniel> Movim heavily relies on a php backend to store stuff
[07:25:50] <marc> Do it in PHP then
[07:27:29] <daniel> I think that's what edhelas is taking about
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[07:28:08] <marc> Okay, because Holger mentioned mod_omemo
[07:28:40] <daniel> Different use cases
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[08:42:17] <Holger> Everyone trying to use ejabberd for his custom chat solution seems to struggle with FCM/APNS.  A Google search such as "github xmpp push app server" comes up with three or four FCM/APNS app servers on the first page ...
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[08:54:33] <zuglufttier> And push is just another thing that nobody really needs but was invented to make people dependent on google or apple.
[08:54:49] <zuglufttier> I mean, push is working flawlessly with e-mail.
[08:55:33] <Holger> I don't think it was invented with that motivation TBH.  But yes that's an effect, of course.
[08:55:36] <daniel> IMAP (assuming that's what you mean by email) is literally the worst when it comes to push
[08:56:42] <zuglufttier> I mean that. It's working for me. I don't know much about the technical details but I could set it up for my private mail server.
[08:58:20] <Holger> IMAP is like XMPP, it's okay-ish if you through the right bunch of extensions on top (e.g. IMAP IDLE) ...
[08:58:27] <Holger> *throw ...
[08:59:32] <daniel> Yeah it's exactly like xmpp. Every problem has at least two extensions that aim to solve it. One you want to use and one that's actually implemented everywhere
[08:59:37] <zuglufttier> Just found this :D https://samj.net/2008/07/18/apple-iphone-2-0-the-real-story-behind-mobileme-push-mail-and-jabberxmpp-chat/
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[09:12:46] <edhelas> zuglufttier is it still the case ? GCM/Firebase was also using XMPP but looks like it's a heavily tunned one
[09:17:50] <zuglufttier> I don't know. I just stumbled upon that.
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[09:39:31] <4rm0ur> hi - I have a question about stream management and presence
[09:39:56] <4rm0ur> if the stream management timeout is hit, should the server be sending presence offline stanzas?
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[09:41:25] <Holger> Yes if the session times out it should be closed, with just the same effects as when a non-SM session is closed.
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[09:41:39] <4rm0ur> ok - I'm not seeing that behavior, which is odd
[09:41:54] <Holger> Certainly works elsewhere.
[09:42:00] <4rm0ur> resume_timeout is set to 30 seconds
[09:42:07] <4rm0ur> but i don't have any presence updates even after 10 minutes
[09:42:12] <Holger> Is mod_push_keepalive enabled?
[09:42:19] <4rm0ur> no
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[09:42:37] <Holger> How did you verify the session is actually pending?
[09:42:58] <Holger> With [info] level you'll get a "waiting for resumption" message in the log.
[09:43:11] <4rm0ur> i didn't - but the client certainly has no connection
[09:43:16] <Holger> That's the point in time where the resume_timeout starts.
[09:43:36] <4rm0ur> ok - i don't see anything like that in the logs
[09:43:40] <Holger> The question is whether the server's TCP stack noticed.
[09:43:42] <4rm0ur> i have debug level enabled
[09:44:01] <4rm0ur> i'd hope it would notice after 10 minutes!
[09:44:13] <Holger> Not necessarily.  It's TCP.
[09:44:18] <4rm0ur> argh
[09:44:25] <4rm0ur> would mod_push_keepalive help with this?
[09:44:28] <Holger> No.
[09:44:35] <4rm0ur> ok
[09:45:30] <Holger> If you send traffic to that client, mod_stream_mgmt will request an acknowledgement and assume the connection timed out, by default after 60s.
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[09:45:37] <Holger> (If you're using a recent-ish ejabberd version.)
[09:45:41] <4rm0ur> 18.06
[09:45:43] <4rm0ur> so yeah
[09:45:52] <4rm0ur> so if i send the client a message it should detect that?
[09:46:21] <Holger> Otherwise you could enable mod_ping with 'kill' enabled, but I wouldn't ping more often than once in, dunno, 20--30 min., to not drain batteries.
[09:46:27] <Holger> Yes.
[09:46:34] <4rm0ur> yeah, it would be nice not to have to resort to mod_ping
[09:46:57] <4rm0ur> i sent a message, waiting...
[09:47:27] <4rm0ur> so i got the waiting for resumption of stream message
[09:47:37] <Holger> There you go.
[09:47:41] <4rm0ur> but no presence
[09:48:00] <Holger> Even though 30 seconds have elapsed since that message?
[09:48:12] <4rm0ur> ok, got it now
[09:48:15] <Holger> ...
[09:48:47] <4rm0ur> so i should look at the server tcp stack to see if it can kill connections?
[09:48:54] <4rm0ur> there's nothing mod_stream_mgmt can do?
[09:48:59] <Holger> What are you trying to achieve?
[09:49:10] <4rm0ur> a reliable indication that a user is offline
[09:49:23] <4rm0ur> so ideally a presence message indicating that
[09:49:38] <Holger> This, by definition, requires querying the client.
[09:49:41] <Holger> So enable mod_ping.
[09:49:52] <4rm0ur> right
[09:50:10] <Holger> You could use other ways of querying but no way to check whether it's alive without waking the battery.
[09:50:21] <Holger> Er, radio.
[09:50:23] <4rm0ur> so stream management won't timeout unless something queries the client?
[09:50:27] <Holger> *Draining* the battery.
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[09:50:39] <Holger> Of course not.
[09:50:59] <Holger> I don't think you want the server to randomly kill TCP connections.
[09:51:16] <4rm0ur> well
[09:51:19] <4rm0ur> i do if they're dead...
[09:51:38] <Holger> Enable mod_ping to check if they're dead then.
[09:51:46] <Holger> I think I said all that can be said about this topic.
[09:51:52] <4rm0ur> yup, thanks for your help
[09:52:14] <Holger> Out of curiosity, why do you reliable indication that a user is offline?
[09:52:25] <Holger> *why do you need
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[09:53:42] <4rm0ur> UX really
[09:53:52] <4rm0ur> if the UI indicates that a user is online when they haven't been for 15 minutes
[09:53:56] <4rm0ur> that's confusing to users
[09:53:57] <Holger> Doe some IM client?
[09:54:05] <4rm0ur> yes unfortunately
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[09:54:09] <Holger> Don't most/all modern IM clients get away without that?
[09:54:12] <Holger> WhatsApp does.
[09:54:34] <Holger> WhatsApp shows a last-activity timestamp, which is more useful I think.
[09:54:41] <4rm0ur> yes
[09:54:47] <4rm0ur> e.g. facebook messenger has online
[09:54:51] <4rm0ur> and then last activity if the user is offline
[09:55:10] <Holger> I think the TCP connection status is mostly useless these days.
[09:55:24] <Holger> I mean I think it always was, but even more so with mobile.
[09:55:44] <4rm0ur> yeah I pretty much agree with you, but try telling that to the users who like their nice green dot :D
[09:55:56] <Holger> WhatsApp succeeded telling them :-)
[09:56:04] <Holger> Signal/Threema and many others as well I think.
[09:56:47] <daniel> But that green dot is not 'connected' but app in foreground
[09:57:10] <daniel> So usually you should be able to turn that off when your app goes into background
[09:57:28] <daniel> By switching to away or what ever mechanism you want to use
[09:57:31] <4rm0ur> yeah - if you have a network connection
[09:57:38] <4rm0ur> not if the network dies while you're int eh foreground
[09:59:26] <4rm0ur> and facebook messenger seems to send online for marketing reasons rather than if the user is present :D
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[10:15:36] <zinid> Holger, did you manage to get lager working in OTP21?
[10:15:58] <zinid> I bumped its version (to 3.6.5) but seems like it doesn't log SASL messages
[10:16:46] <zinid> also, "Application foo started" messages also lost, not sure if it's bug or feature
[10:18:23] <Holger> I had the same problem; they think they fixed it: https://github.com/erlang-lager/lager/issues/455
[10:18:47] <Holger> I downgraded to OTP 20 and didn't look into it, sorry.
[10:19:23] <Holger> Ah no I do have a server running on 21, I can check there later.
[10:20:07] <zinid> Ok
[10:21:10] <Holger> This is the PR I meant: https://github.com/erlang-lager/lager/pull/456
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[10:24:27] <zinid> Yes, but I think it's included in the latest tag
[10:26:28] <zinid> This PR fixes the crash, but the problem with sasl remains
[10:26:50] <Holger> "Oh."
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[10:50:13] <zinid> Holger: that's sad, because in my tests otp21 scheduler has much better performance in my tests under heavy load (100% CPU) - it is still responsive
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[10:54:39] <Holger> > The old SASL error logging behaviour can be re-enabled by setting the Kernel configuration parameter logger_sasl_compatible to true.
http://erlang.org/doc/apps/sasl/error_logging.html
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[10:54:45] <Holger> Won't this do the trick?
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[11:00:57] <zinid> I'll check
[11:02:41] <zinid> Do we even need lager now?
[11:03:11] <zinid> Ah, probably for better formatting
[11:03:33] <zinid> The default Erlang log formatter is odd
[11:03:57] <Holger> And the new API still doesn't make this nicer/configurable?
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[11:04:34] <Holger> http://erlang.org/doc/apps/kernel/logger_chapter.html
[11:05:01] <Holger> Docs look like some Monster Enterprise Java Logging System.
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[11:05:20] <Holger> I'm still a C guy.  syslog("msg"), done.
[11:07:58] <zinid> LOL, actually lager is a monster too
[11:08:15] <zinid> With a ton adhoc functions
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[11:09:53] <zinid> At least it's much better documented, unlike lager 😁
[11:10:15] <Holger> > A formatter can be used by the handler implementation to do the final formatting of a log event, before printing to the handler's destination.
[11:10:29] <Holger> So maybe we can log pretty messages?
[11:10:39] <zinid> Yeah, seems so
[11:10:56] <zinid> And it seems like we have better control
[11:11:07] <zinid> So seems not that bad
[11:11:25] <Holger> And your OTP 21 performance improvements aren't eaten by the logging monster? :-)
[11:12:04] <zinid> No, but wrapping everything into fun() is annoying
[11:12:20] <Holger> Functional programming!
[11:12:47] <zinid> > The log message can also be provided through a fun for lazy evaluation. The fun is only evaluated if the primary log level check passes, and is therefore recommended if it is expensive to generate the message.
[11:13:32] <Holger> Ah, another way of avoiding ?DEBUG() eating CPU.
[11:14:15] <zinid> Yeah, but easy to forget about it and introduce performance hole
[11:14:30] <zinid> Need to write a wrapper
[11:15:10] <zinid> Anyway, lager internally doing almost the same under the hood (when you apply parse transformer)
[11:16:09] <Holger> But with lager, ?DEBUG("~p", [Mod:expensive_fun()]) is still evaluated after parse transform, no?
[11:16:52] <Holger> It's just not passed to lager.
[11:17:16] <Licaon_Kter> You won't use the new "OTP-13295 logger" thing?
[11:17:43] <Holger> That's what we're discussing.
[11:18:04] <Holger> 18.09 should use it and hard-depend on OTP 21 :-)
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[11:19:07] <Licaon_Kter> Oh right
[11:20:05] <zinid> Holger: no, parse transformer adds `case lager:loglevel() of debug ->` on top of it, so the branch is not evaluated
[11:20:25] <Holger> Ahh, right.  Ok same result then.
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[11:21:02] <Holger> So I always felt bad for debug-logging jid:encode(JID) for no reason.
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[11:21:16] <zinid> Holger: nah, that's ok
[11:22:24] <zinid> We can wrap the code into fun() in our macro
[11:22:53] <zinid> So no need to rewrite anything, only logger.hrl
[11:23:11] <zinid> I will play with it
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[11:27:53] <marc> Hm, OTP 21 is not in Debian Stable, is it?
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[11:32:19] <zinid> marc: it's not
[11:32:37] <zinid> I compiled mine myself
[11:32:49] <marc> omg :D
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[11:33:41] <zinid> Wut? ./configure && make
[11:33:50] <zinid> Rocket science bitch
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[11:34:09] <marc> What features of OTP 21 are so important?
[11:34:44] <zinid> marc: for me? Better performance of scheduler and I/O
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[11:35:22] <zinid> file io, strictly speaking
[11:35:49] <zinid> Holger: file io should not be a bottle neck anymore
[11:36:22] <zinid> So maybe we can do http upload now without nginx offload
[11:36:31] <Holger> Hm what have they done?
[11:36:35] <marc> > Wut? ./configure && make
> Rocket science bitch
Maintainace / updates are problematic not the build process of course ;)
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[11:37:01] <zinid> Holger: they got rid of file_server and use async threads
[11:37:13] <Holger> zinid: I never checked the code but I would've assumed 'raw' I/O to be a thin wrapper around the C calls.
[11:37:24] <Holger> I thought file_server wasn't involved with 'raw'.
[11:37:31] <zinid> Holger: suddenly it's not
[11:37:40] <zinid> I thought that too
[11:37:54] <Holger> "Oh."
[11:38:23] <zinid> Yeah, the reason http upload has terrible performance
[11:38:54] <zinid> Or had? πŸ€”
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[11:44:14] <rom1dep> > OTP 21
huh, even f28 doesn't have that
[11:44:34] <rom1dep> maybe I'll need to upgrade my server straight from f27 to f29
[11:44:42] <rom1dep> fun ahead !
[11:45:04] <Holger> https://packages.debian.org/de/experimental/erlang
[11:45:05] <Holger> !
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[11:46:04] <rom1dep> Simultane, verteilte und funktionelle Echtzeitsprache
[11:46:10] <Holger> Er.
[11:46:17] <rom1dep> wowh, they translated the description
[11:47:03] <Holger> Yeah.  Debian translates man pages.
[11:47:26] <Holger> I mean, Debian translates everything.
[11:47:57] <rom1dep> meanwhile, https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=1681
+1 for debian
[11:49:50] <zinid> Holger: they didn't translate into Russian, meh
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[11:54:12] <rom1dep> zinid: you can offer your help!
[11:55:17] <zinid> rom1dep: not for free!
[11:55:41] <SouL> And you expected it for free :O
[11:58:43] <Licaon_Kter> Smth smth better
https://michal.muskala.eu/2018/06/20/my-otp-21-highlights.html
[11:58:56] <zinid> SouL: nah, I have en_US locale
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[12:05:17] <Licaon_Kter> Π’Ρ€Π°ΠΈΡ‚ΠΎΡ€!
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[14:14:24] <bowlofeggs> rom1dep: i wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but erlang 21 is available via a copr: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/mbrancaleoni/erlang/
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[14:14:58] <bowlofeggs> i'm not sure whether packages built for erlang 20 (what f28 has) would work on erlang 21, or if they need to be rebuilt against it
[14:15:22] <bowlofeggs> again, not a recommendation, just an fyi :)
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[14:22:22] <zinid> bowlofeggs, it's better to rebuild them anyway because the 21'st compiler produces more compact beams now
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[14:24:07] <zinid> gosh, OTP-19.2
[14:24:12] <zinid> oops, wrong chat
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[14:26:04] <bowlofeggs> zinid: ah nice
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[14:28:27] <rom1dep> bowlofeggs: good to know! Thanks
[14:30:06] <bowlofeggs> rom1dep: i also found this BZ which is about updating erlang: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1569499
[14:30:21] <bowlofeggs> it looks a bit... ignored :(
[14:30:52] <bowlofeggs> i maintain ejabberd in fedora, but i don't maintain erlang itself
[14:31:04] <bowlofeggs> i did make one patch on our erlang package once though ☺
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[14:31:23] <bowlofeggs> i'll contact the maintainer to see what's up
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[14:35:24] <zinid> Holger, for the record, adding `logger_sasl_compatible true` makes it worse: lager now doesn't intercept them and they logged "as is"
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[14:36:38] <Holger> Eww.
[14:41:02] <zinid> Holger, ok, nevermind, seems like crashes are correctly logged, so not an issue
[14:41:26] <zinid> I mean crashes are logged even without this `logger_sasl_compatible` flag
[14:41:54] <Holger> But you use SASL logging from libraries such as 'xmpp' no?
[14:43:35] <zinid> yes, I do
[14:43:47] <zinid> not sasl logging, just error_logger:foo()
[14:43:58] <zinid> this is still supported
[14:44:39] <Holger> Ah ok.
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[16:23:49] <aditya_borikar> .
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[17:49:29] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n> good evening .. someone here using spectrum2 in docker and has webstorage running ?
[17:49:42] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n> in spectrum2 dev channel nobody answers :P
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[19:12:13] <tyler> I just realized post-SQL migration... All of my users on my main virtual host also exist on my second virtual host... and new users created also get created on the second virtual host...
[19:12:19] <tyler> What in the world have I done.
[19:12:45] <tyler> The "last user activity" gets updated on the second virtual host too...
[19:12:52] <tyler> These are for two different domains.
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[19:24:36] <Licaon_Kter> tyler: _we are calling that a feature, live backup_
[19:24:51] <tyler> lawl
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[19:38:01] <zuglufttier> https://disroot.org/en/blog/matrix-closure
[19:39:21] <tyler> AWESOME!
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[19:45:18] <zinid> zuglufttier, who are they?
[19:45:26] <zinid> some disroot
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[20:09:34] <zuglufttier> "Disroot is a platform providing online services based on principles of freedom, privacy, federation and decentralization." but apart from that I don't know much about them. I think they've been around for some years. Don't know how many users etc.
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[20:12:39] <zuglufttier> Oh, nevermind, they use prosody :D https://disroot.org/en/services/xmpp
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[20:16:20] <edhelas> muahaha
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[20:20:45] <zinid> > Oh, nevermind, they use prosody :D https://disroot.org/en/services/xmpp
Yeah, I already read that
[20:21:25] <zinid> !version disroot.org
[20:21:26] <Servant> zinid: disroot.org is running Prosody version trunk nightly build 964 (2018-09-04, 585ef5c1b226) on Linux
[20:21:53] <zinid> !uptime disroot.org
[20:21:53] <Servant> zinid: disroot.org has been running for 0 days, 18 hours and 9 minutes
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[20:22:34] <zinid> Typical 😁
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[20:33:30] <edhelas> uptime is overrated
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[20:39:13] <Link Mauve> !uptime jabberfr.org
[20:39:13] <Servant> Link Mauve: jabberfr.org has been running for 19 days, 4 hours and 31 minutes
[20:39:35] <Link Mauve> Thanks MattJ! :D
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[20:41:40] <Link Mauve> Apparently having three months of uptime isn’t recommended on the trunk version, I can’t see why. :D
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[20:45:13] <edhelas> !uptime movim.eu
[20:45:13] <Servant> edhelas: movim.eu has been running for 38 days, 22 hours and 59 minutes
[20:45:26] <edhelas> last reboot was to upgrade ejabberd
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[22:06:36] <Licaon_Kter> > disroot.org has been running for 0 days, 18 hours and 9 minutes
[22:06:42] <Licaon_Kter> They had to purge MAtrix?
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[22:26:10] <mightyBroccoli> !uptime magicbroccoli.de
[22:26:11] <Servant> mightyBroccoli: magicbroccoli.de has been running for 47 days, 23 hours and 39 minutes
[22:26:56] <mightyBroccoli> Damn.
But foreshadow will kill my uptime soon.
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[22:28:52] <genofire> !uptime chat.sum7.eu
[22:28:53] <Servant> genofire: chat.sum7.eu has been running for 7 days, 22 hours and 42 minutes
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[22:30:52] <genofire> Hmm, oh yes last reboot was to announce support-channel in welcome_message (should use reload_config)
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[22:31:26] <genofire> !version chat.sum7.eu
[22:31:26] <Servant> genofire: chat.sum7.eu is running ejabberd version 18.06 on unix/linux 4.18.3
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[22:36:27] <genofire> converse.js has omemo support? Nice one, https://github.com/conversejs/converse.js/releases
[22:37:05] <genofire> Hope it is stored in Browser (localStorage or something)
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[22:59:43] <Licaon_Kter> vanitasvitae: _The author has been inactive for an extended period of time, ignoring requests for comments, causing a total halt in the development of the standard (making changes to the XEP needs the authors approval)_
Who's the author of OMEMO? strb?
ref: https://blogs.fsfe.org/vanitasvitae/2018/09/07/future-of-omemo/
[23:00:04] rom1dep leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[23:00:27] <vanitasvitae> Yes
[23:00:44] <vanitasvitae> There are some open PRs with pending feedback
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